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Original poster

childminder possible in breach of registration

57 replies

Nubbin · 22/06/2010 21:02

Hi

I am due back at work in 2 weeks and had found a childminder I liked - local, nice etc. She was looking after her son (3) full time and doing a school pick up for a five year old. My dd is 6 months old and will be with her full time.

This morning she emailed to say that she has taken on 2 more full time girls (2 and 3). I think this puts her in breach of her Ofsted registration (she is registered as being allowed 4 children under 8 of which only 2 can be in the early years age group). Not sure what to do now - do I mention the Ofsted thing (in which case I imagine that she would probably dump my dd) - more than that would 4 under 5s in the care of one adult work?

Would love to know what other people would do - if anyone has that many kids and how it works? Just think that it does not seem very professional and that does not bode well???

Thanks

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majafa · 23/06/2010 07:42

Or the Family information service..
Is it for you

majafa · 23/06/2010 07:41

Nubbin - Have you tried childcare.co.uk or even childmindinghelp.co.uk both good sites..

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:39

Lots of Luck and definitely speak to her - my husband is currently on response but when he was a community officer it was exactly the sort of issue he would deal with - half the time it was just someone disgruntled trying to make trouble and warned off by a police presence.

Anyone with childcare suggestions for N8 London?

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looneytune · 22/06/2010 23:34

Thanks for taking the time I've had great experiences with the police sorting gangs out at our old home some years ago and they helped sort things without it going to far (luckily we don't live somewhere like that now!). The main problem is I don't know who is doing this, that's what I need to TRY and find out but because I'm in childcare, the complainant has protection! grrr

I may speak to the local community police officer to my school as I've chatted to her a few times, mainly so she can talk to the children about what they do etc.

Thanks for the advice, wish me luck!

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:31

Wish I had spelt neighbourhood right the first time but the advice still stands!

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Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:27

Don't discount the police - they have their faults but if you manage to find the right one they are good at sorting this sort of situation out. Find out if there is a safer neigherbood team in your area - they are ideal with this sort of dispute as they are exceptional at making a visit to explain to someone why their behaviour is not on without making it a criminal matter. If that deson't work the offence of assault/ harrasment does not require a physical action so you could make a complaint which would have to be followed up and would hopefully scare someone off.

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looneytune · 22/06/2010 23:25

Nubbin - it wasn't easy, I can tell you. Fine to start with but then ds2 wanted bf'ing every 2 hours day AND night for 4 months once he hit 15 wks old, still we all survived and there's such a strong bond. It was challenging (but great) when they were 10 wks, 8 months, 17 months and 19 months old (triple buggy AND a sling!! lol) but now they are 2, 2.6, 3.2 and 3.4 and there is much more freedom. I, like many minders on here, have had ALL SORTS of age ranges with/without needing a variation and I'd say most do just fine. It's not the sort of job you can continue to do if extremely stressed, it's our job to make sure we can cope with who we have and if not, make the necessary changes

looneytune · 22/06/2010 23:21

Thanks for that. I don't know who it is but feel it may be getting towards harrassment now as I had a complaint nearly a year ago and in January this person would have had confirmed that there was no further action. Now it's started again but Ofsted aren't taking it seriously and actually told me the accusations were that crazy I'd probably laugh when she told me - I did! But someone is out to get me for whatever reason and I feel it's very unfair. This time one of the accusations could have caused big problems with my marriage had it not been for the fact my dh had been working as my assistant and knew for a fact it couldn't be true!! I just feel this person should not be able to get away with continuing to make up these terrible stories!! Anyway, sorry, ranted on a bit there. Am going to phone my home insurance legal team first, just thought I'd see if you had any ideas Would be interested to know if the police would be interested in this though, knowing my luck probably not but you never know

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:20

Ps also v impressed at the ten week! At six months I feel barely able to go back to work.

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Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:18

Re looneytune - v good to hear that babies and toddlers can get on!

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Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:14

Re malicious complaints - entirely out of my field of expertise - I would suggest probably seeing someone local - lots of local firms run surgeries that are free for the first 30 minutes of advice - I can recommend one in south Loundon/ Surrey. I guess you are probably looking at an injunction which can be pricey unless the complaints/ behaviour has crossed a line into harassment which could be dealt with by a police visit. My husband has certainly dealt with online harassment before as a police matter.

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looneytune · 22/06/2010 23:14

BTW, I also look after 4 aged 3 and under every day as well as the older kids before/after school. Most of the time it's great, they are all so very close as they've been together for a long time (most of them). When ds2 was 10 weeks old, I started back with my mindees and the ages ranged from 10wks to 19 months and so they've grown up together (2 started as tiny babies). It would be more the space in the childminders home I'd be concerned about. I don't have a huge place at all but I do have a separate playroom, reasonable lounge space and bedrooms upstairs for napping. I think you were right to email and raise those concerns. How she responds will probably help you decide but of course you need to get to the bottom of her registration conditions first. I think the online system updates pretty much straight away so I'd expect to see her variation on there. But yes, find out if her own child is near starting school full time as that is possible.

Good luck

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 23:09

My and my husband's gut instinct is that the childminder will be great for dd and rather than a nursery it will be closer to the family enviroment we would wish for her if we didn't have to work/ could get up the courage to have a second!

Just worried about the numbers and how they will relate to each other in a small space!

Re the employment lawyer - always happy to help! Employment law is unfortunately a mine field.

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looneytune · 22/06/2010 23:09

I feel like I'm constantly writing to Ofsted to ask for variations and wouldn't ever look after a child without it, even for 5 mins! They probably get fed up with the amount of letters I send but I'm sticking to the rules no matter what!!

Now I know you're an employment lawyer but I don't suppose you have any recommendations for getting legal advice about malicious complaints? Sorry, you're probably wishing you'd never mentioned being a lawyer now! LOL

nannynick · 22/06/2010 22:56

Always handy to have an employment lawyer on here Nubbin. Issues often crop up in employment contracts - be they between parents and a nanny, or a childminder employing an assistant.

With regard to childminders always abiding by registration requirements... there will always be some who won't abide by it all the time. Some cases do get to be seen by the Care Standards Tribunal, those are of course the more major things. Try not to worry though, vast majority of childminders do abide by the requirements and even those who may not abide by them, may not abide by them accidentally - rather than on purpose - as it can be confusing at times. Some childminders are great with children but not very good at paperwork... so may not fully comply with requirements due to not having a bit of paper (such as a policy/procedure about something). Does that make them a bad childminder?

Trust your gut instincts.

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 22:42

Employment contracts are my bread and butter - what do you need?

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KatyMac · 22/06/2010 22:38

Hmm Nubbin - you probably could............Employment contracts??

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 22:37

Thank you - v positive to know there are other mums out there with advice! Have emailed to say I have concerns about the space/ sleeping and eating arrangements/ what activities she will do each day to keep all 4/5 kids entertained and suggested that we meet up to chat and see how the kids interact.

My other half is a police officer and to apply for child care vouchers through the met she needs to provide a copy of her registration certificate so I have asked for that and will see if there is an issue.

Again any experiences of the mix of ages or whether childminders always abide by their registration restraints would be vvv useful.

Will be posting a lot more now about weaning/sleeping and all the other stuff I don't have experience of!

However in my other life I am a v good employment lawyer - so if I can be of use...

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geraldinetheluckygoat · 22/06/2010 22:17

its ok, its scary placing your trust in someone like that...but honestly just ask. Even tell her you dont want to sound neurotic and that you know she is a professional, but can she just put your mind at rest. If she's a professional she will be able to give you an answer straight away and wont really mind you asking. If shes all legal and above board, youll feel fine, if not you'll know to go elsewhere. Either way you can stop worrying about it without knowing the facts! Good luck!

atworknotworking · 22/06/2010 22:17

Yes Ofsted agree or can stipulate which areas can be registered. As a general rule of thumb inspectors look at the requirements for space that day nursery regulations give, so a baby (under 12mths) should have 3.5m2 of space, older children 2.5m2. Parts of the building that are amenity areas arn't included ie: utility rooms etc.

No I can't CAT you, but if you have the time my email is sticky fingers at talk talk dot net (without the gaps with an @ and a .)thanks.

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 22:13

ps - I kind of needed to know if I had a genuine concern before I bring it up - I don't want to be amazingly neurotic first time mum...

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lollipopmother · 22/06/2010 22:13

Ah well if they're siblings maybe she has got a variation?

Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 22:12

Thanks Geraldine - sometimes the simple suggestions are the ones you can't see when you are stressed about everything!

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Original poster
Nubbin · 22/06/2010 22:09

Unfortunately not - they are siblings and will be there full time. You have to register parts of your home for use? So much I don't know.... I am worried about bringing it up apart form in a general concern about the space way as I can't afford to lose her this close to going back to work!

atworknotworking - I don't have the private message facilty - if you message me can I reply? If it is a simple matter 15k seems v high - at the least it is worth getting other quotes - an initial consultation and fee quote should be free - I am based in London and my firm would not be appropriate but I can recommend Dawsons (I have names but don't want to post them here)

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geraldinetheluckygoat · 22/06/2010 22:06

OP, why don't you just ask her? No one here really knows the terms of her registration. If you mistrust her now, and feel unable to ask her about this matter, how will you trust her to look after your child? It doesn't have to be in an accusatory way, just reply and say, "Great, have ofsted said its ok to have 4 under 3's?" or whatever.