childminder taking me to court!

Cory I see what you are saying. And I agreed that if my ds (when he learns to talk) says similar about our cm, I'd find it hard to believe because she hasn't a bad bone in her body. And kids do lie all the time.

OP has a bad feeling about the incidents. If my gut feeling was telling me that something was amiss and my child complaining of mistreatment, I'd not pay the cm either. And I'd be worried about the other children in her care.

However Tanith re: "Unfortunately, it is very common for parents to attempt to wriggle out of paying by claiming bad practice and threatening the childminder with a report to Ofsted. Even I have had a very unpleasant parent try it on with me."
Maybe I'm just naive but who would make a false accusation like that, putting someone else's job and integrity at risk just to not have to pay some money?? Now that as well, makes me .

I just can't decide where I stand at this point...

Do you have any correspondence with the childminder, stating your concerns? Have you ever raised these issues with her? Have you made a complaint to her? When did she find out that you had a problem with her care?

All this is very relevant. Unfortunately, it is very common for parents to attempt to wriggle out of paying by claiming bad practice and threatening the childminder with a report to Ofsted. Even I have had a very unpleasant parent try it on with me.

If you have never tried to discuss the problem until you removed your child from her care, then it may be difficult to prove that you are not simply trying to get out of paying her. Talk to Ofsted by all means, but they will have expected you to have tried to sort this out with the childminder first.

You might also like to give the NCMA a call on 0845 880044. They're there for parents as well as childminders and may be able to advise you how to proceed and if you have a case.

But StarExpat, surely if you are going to use maltreatment as a reason to breach your contract, you need to have actual evidence of maltreatment? Not just say "but I don't know for sure that she hasn't been maltreating him".

"children dont tend to lie unless they are covering things up"

I found mine lied quite a bit actually at that age, to get others into trouble or because they were feeling hard done by and needing to justify it to themselves; and they are not particularly nasty children

also, more frequent than actual lying was exaggeration, claiming that I had done something when I knew I hadn't- but it felt like it at the time

I remember doing this to my mum- lying on the floor and shouting "you kicked me" when she had lightly and accidentally brushed against me. I had been misbehaving and needed to feel it was her who was nasty instead.

Of course, it is not certain that the OPs ds has been exaggerating. But it is not certain he hasn't either. To withhold money you owe someone, you would have to be pretty certain.

Not sure if anyone has already mentioned this or not... there is a Leaflet for people who are going through having a claim made against them (so they are defending the claim).

From HMcourtsservice Small Claims : EX303 A court claim has been made against me ? what should I do?

Also

EX306 Small Claims Track in Civil Courts

My word gotkidz. Kids lie constantly! They don't learn the diffrence between the real world and fibbing until they're something like 7 years old.
You're going to get walked all over by yours if you think they never make stuff up!

Contact OFSTED they can shut her down straight away, they are very hot on safeguarding and if your still unsure speak to the local social services, there are plenty of roots for you to take, as for going to court, she has to have a good enough reason and if they don't like what she says at court she would actually end up worse off than yourself as she would have to pay for everything, children dont tend to lie unless they are covering things up

obv no childcarer should mistreat a child - tbh no one should but im still trying to be neutral

not saying that op is lying but if one of you cm's on here came on and said that a mindess mum had taken dc out and not paying, you would all say take to court for lack of salary

op said "I had spoken to her about the incident and tried to sort it out but she diddn't see a problem with pressuring him to eat and denies all the rest. "

depends what she calls pressuring to eat, if mine dont eat/are slow etc, after 30mins they get a timer of 10mins (so 40 in all) and if dont want it,then fine BUT they have to sit at the table with the others till they are finished

Well, if she indeed had mistreated my child, I would certainly not be paying her a penny more. yes, it's her job. But her job is to care for my child. If she doesn't do her job, she doesn't get paid and f**ck any notice period. I'd go to court after writing her that letter and bring a copy of it with me.

Actually, I'd call ofsted, report it, then tell her I'd actually prefer to bring her to court for mistreating my child.

This sort of thing makes me so . What makes someone who does something like that think that they should get paid for it?

I was chatting to CM friend about contracts this week. Her hubby is a litigation solicitor and he said by the time you have gone to court, paid the solicitors time and whatever else you have to pay for the amount of money that you would get at the end of it wouldn't be worth your while. If is for a small amount say £500. The CM would end up with about £100. The letter from the solicitor would have cost her money as well. I would write and say you are ending the contract due to the breakdown of the relationship between you and the CM.

Nanny contracts have a Gross Misconduct section ... Do childminder contracts have anything similar?

I know what you mean. It doesn't sound right, maybe it is a breach of contract. Problem is I doubt any of us knows for sure - has anyone been to court under this kind of circumstance and the court did consider it grounds for not paying notice period?

Then follow PinkChick's advice and write the letter stating your reasons for removal. This will then be considered in a court case if it comes to that instead of a judge just looking at notice period in the contract. Date it, sign it and make sure it is in writing and you have a copy and whoever necessary for the court case.

It makes me absolutely sick to my stomach, nannynick to even think that mistreating a child could be considered not in breach of contract. No one should ever be able to get away with mistreating a child. Not ever. Sorry that sounded a bit like I was attacking you, NN - I'm not. Just made me feel uneasy that someone mistreating a child could still get money off the mistreated child's parents. Revolting.

unfort no proof that the cm is mistreating her mindee, just the word of a 6yr who has been fussy with his food (trying to be neutral here)

Is quality of care, how someone treats a child not eating dinner, covered under the contract terms?
I would not have thought there would be any specific terms to deal with that.

Is mistreating a child breach of contract?
That is the question... if the regulator finds that the CM has mistreated the child, then it may be grounds to terminate contract.
Without the regulator being involved, then there is no proof that there has been mistreatment, is there?
That is where a court could get involved, though would thay still be doable via 'small claims' special procedures court?

blondes, but if the cm is actually mistreating the child, she is in breach of contract, so OP should not have to pay her, is this correct?

yes report to ofsted - this is what they are for

i agree with wannabe and veer on the side caution with what actually happened

was child force fed, or said to try the food/wait at table till others finished

unless had tea as soon as at home after school ie 3.30/4pm then doubt child sat at table for 90mins

but yes you do need to pay the cm if you are not using her (your choice) as sure there is 4weeks notice in contract

yes report to ofsted - this is what they are for

i agree with wannabe and veer on the side caution with what actually happened

was child force fed, or said to try the food/wait at table till others finished

unless had tea as soon as at home after school ie 3.30/4pm then doubt child sat at table for 90mins

but yes you do need to pay the cm if you are not using her (your choice) as sure there is 4weeks notice in contract

while that is possible, moogster, it is also possible that it could be more serious. The parent of the child in your care knows you're a good cm and that you wouldn't do that and that her dc imagines stuff like that...same as if my ds (once he learns to talk) said something like that about our cm, I'd laugh, too (she has no basement) and I just know she wouldn't mistreat any child. Ever.

OP doesn't know that for sure, has a bad feeling and other stuff has happened.

If there have been other incidents and she genuinely feels that her child is being mistreated, she should definitely not brush it off and let it keep happening to her ds and other children.

I'd rather protect the children than the cm tbh.

a- report her to ofsted immediatly
b- Send her a letter (do everything in writing) stating you had no option but to remove your child as there was a child protection issue, you felt your child was at risk being there due to examples you had already discussed which were not resolved and the fact she had said she would NOT provide child care during the notice period anyway.

if she has ncma contracts then they do state (dont quote me but its along these lines) immediate withdrawel is acceptable when the parent considers the child to be at risk..

Im actually at court myself soon (im a cm, completely diff story and its parent reusing to come back or pay) and have been assured they only deal with facts and legalities, so the fact you are contracted to give 4 weeks notice is the issue which is why you neeed to put in writing that she has refused care and that you didnt feel she was looking at your child properly.

Best of luck

alternatively StarExpat, brushing the childs head with your hand whilst holding a fork up saying, " come on, are you sure you don't want to even try it".
I've had a child say I locked them in the cellar. We don't have one!! Sensible parent laughed and told the child he'd be locked in the attic when they got home!

Wait, wannabe - holding a child's head down with your hand and shoving a fork to their mouth.... that's a bit more than just "pressuring" a child to eat.

pressuring a child to eat does not amount to force feeding. You may not like it and that is entirely your perogative, but making a child sit at a table to eat (and I sincerely doubt that a six year old has the capasity to grasp the amount of time he sat there) is not mistreatment or child abuse.

Tbh it sounds as if there's an awful lot of misquotation and misunderstanding going on here. Child tells parent that he was made to sit and eat his dinner, parent then accuses the childminder of force-feeding the child, of course she denied it, because it didn't happen in the way the parent has accused.

If you genuinely believe this woman is abusing children in her care then you have a moral obligation to report her. If it is just that you don't agree with the way in which she deals with your child then it is your perogative to remove him from her care, but you have a contract, and as such you owe her the money for the four weeks notice.

In other words, put up, or shut up,

Don't pay.

Seek legal advice.

If the other incidences are similar to the force feeding I would contemplate getting in touch with police as well as ss and ofsted.

I would go to the Citizen's Advice Bureau and get some free advice.