Help! Need advice re: retainer fee for childminder

moorew2 - not sure how you are a 's/e childminder in childs own home'. Are you Ofsted registered?

moorew2

the definition of a childminder is a homebased childcare provider, providing childcare in their own home.

a nanny is a homebased childcare provider providing childcare in the home of the child.

it may possible to be a self employed nanny but HMRC have to make the decision if you are self employed or an employee depending on the terms of your contract but generally you must be providing temporary care and to more than one family.

you can't charge a retainer but you could charge a registration fee that could be non refundable should the family choose not to use your service.

be very careful and check with HMRC or the family you work for could be fined.

I dont understand how you can be a CM, if you are looking after the children in their own home, surely you are a nanny, and as such you should be employed not self employed

Hi I am a self employed childminder for children in their own home, I am currently off at the moment and have been told that I can charge a retainer is this right?

I'm so glad you were able to have a positive outcome even if it wasn't a cM lol. Best of luck for you all. The nursey you describe sounds great & I think job satisfaction is a hugely important thing to factor in - happy staff make a better workforce & better environment, and as you say, lower turnover, which is v.important where little people are concerned.
All the best!

Just checking back in on this thread. What a shame this situation has turned so sour - if the CM had only explained properly in the 1st place you would have understood her position and perhaps been able to negotiate the retainer, instead of being left high & dry with negative childminding vibes and a breakdown of trust.
I wonder if she realises too that although the standard registration is 3 under 5 of which only 1 may be under 1 it is possible to apply for a variation to Ofsted for 2 under ones? For 4 under 5's variations are only granted for continuity of care but for 2 under 1's you have to just demonstrate ability to meet children's needs and sufficient resources.
This doesn't help you in any way, just a bit of useless info lol.
Olease continue to look at Childminders, most are FAB. There's been lots of research (Penelope Leach most recently) that shows nurseries are not the best places for babies and that home-based childcare is best for children under 3 in terms of behaviour outcomes amongst other things, so if you can get a cm that would be good 9but obviously I'm biased ))
Good luck whatever happens

I agree with eastmidlandsnightnanny. If you can't 'hit it off' at this very early stage - I would walk away and find another childminder!

Sounds like you had a lucky escape OP and that she may have been a difficult person to work with should any minor issues have come up in the future.

There are lots of fab childminders out there and you will find one right for you and your child.

Perhaps look on here and see if any of the childminders are local and have spaces there was a thread a while back.

Well YellowRose (thank you for clarifying the situation) I would say that seeing as the space wasn't technically available for your son immediately then, no a retainer was not appropriate - however a deposit would have been.

As to her attitude towards you - shame on her, that is not particuarly professional at all and I do not condone that sort of manner towards parents - not least that it does your reputation no good. However, to be fair to the lady as she is not here to present her side of things or defend herself (no disrespect meant to you YellowRose), there are always two sides to every story. Mind you if she has reacted this way to a genuine query, instead of explaining it to you and working out a suitable solution with you then she does not deserve your business.

I promise you, not all of us as like that and many of us will bend over backwards to help you.

op have you asked if your child can start now?

What does she say? She can't ask you to pay for a space that she doesn't have available

Am confused now (doesn't take much in this heat!) - Strix - Persnickety - one and the same????

I have a child starting when another leaves but I still have one space that is currently unfilled and will still (to date) be unfilled when the other child starts - therefore I would be within my rights to charge a retainer (I haven't in this case as the time period is so short) but taken an advance that will secure the place and parents were absolute that they will not need the space till that date.
It has only been assumed that the minder doesn't have the spaces available and unless she is on here and can clarify the position or unless the OP knows for absolute certain that all spaces are filled, not one of us can say for certain whether the minder in question is wrong or not.

NCMA will only advise on good business sense and Ofsted will not advise anything of the sort. I have already stated that perhaps the minder has gotten confused somewhere along the line.

I totally agree with you that at the end of teh day its up to parents to search out the best deal and minder for them but I wanted to clarify a few misconceptions that appear to be cropping up about minders.

I am well aware that a childminder is not an employee of the parent. I thought that was pretty clear in my post. I did use employ in one place where I shouldn't have and realised it after I hit post. So, I guess that what you are referring to. Sorry for the confusion.

The OP did say "However, my son will join at the exact time another child leaves" so I think it's clear that there is not justification for the retainer fee. But even after the OP has now brought this to her attention, she seems to be standing her ground.

You are absolutely right that Childminders have every legal right to negotiate whatever they want into the contract. I just want the OP to know she has the same right and does not have to agree to something just because OFSTED or the NCMA has advised their member to try to do so.

I did not say I would absolutely require a childminder to offer alternative care. I did suggest that OP ask about because if it's on offer it's certainly a plus. I wouldn't even look for it to go into the contract. But if I was interviewing a childminder and she said, "oh yes I get together with about 4 other CMs and we cover each others' hols whenever possible" then that cm would have big fat extra point in my book.

You are right that you may set your own rules, but parents may contract another childminder whose rules are more favourable.

Strix, may i just point out that childminders are not employed by anyone.
As S/E people we set our own terms and conditions and its up to the parent whether they choose to use that minder - thus agreeing to T&C's.
It great that parents have an idea of what they do and don't want from a minder and that can make it easier to negotiate.

Not all minders are part of a network and there is NOTHING to say that back up minders can or will offer spaces if the original minder is off. I use back up minders - as I say a group of trusted colleagues, but I do stress to parents that just because I am off it is in no way guaranteed that any of those minders will have spaces available. Between us we have agreed that we will cover each others spaces if possible at the original agreement rates but that is a very personal decision between us and not all minders will offer this.

Would you demand of a nursery or school that they have alternative care arrangements?

The service that me and my colleagues offer is because we practise at a high level - our choice but at the end of the day providing we have given the appropriate notice of holiday or days of off then really its up to the parent to arrange their own cover. there are the occasional days off that happen at short notice and between us we will move heaven and earth to provide alternative care for the parents where possible. Parents MUST realise that this is a minor 'risk' that they run with minders however and it must be understood that it is not really the minders responsibility to provide or arranage alternative care.
At the end of the day - being self employed its in our own interests not to have days of here and there and you will often find us carrying on through thick and thin.

there are a lot of assumptions going on in this thread and the OP has not stated whether there is a space available now or not - and that would (or wouldn't) justify a retainer being charged.
Being charged a retainer - legitimatly is not 'greedy' it is good business sense.
It sounds like the OP's childmnder has perhaps got herself a bit befuddled with things.

Sorry, I meant to say I would not give her sick pay.

Oh, and as for OFSTED says this and OFSTED says that... you are not obligated to take OFSTED's advice to the childminders. If OFSTED comes out and say "All CMs should try to get their client to dress their children in uniforms before arriving" Well that would be daft and no one would do it (I hope!).

When you use a childminder the document that governs her right and your responsibilities is the contract, not OFSTED and not the NCMA. She may have obligations to them, but you don't.

For what it's worth this is what I would agree to pay if I were employing a childminder:
1- Full pay if I don't show up whether on hols or child ill or whatever reason.
2- Bank hols. As a business owner (and not my employee!) I don't see that CM's are really entitled to this but I think it is common practice so okay I'd go with it.

I would not pay anything for her hols and I would give her sick pay.

Furthermore, I would ask her BEFORE I signed that contract if she is part of a network of childminders and if she would be able to arrange another childminder to look after my child in the even she is unavailable. And then you could just pay the other childminder what you normally pay her. I used to have a childminder who did this and I don't think I appreciated it at the time. I thought everyone did this. But, I have since learned that they do not.

I would be really worried that this is the beginning of many more charges to come. As you say that £300 is 25% of the month fees for 4 days, that's £1200 a month for 4 days a week. And since 4 is 80% of 5, if that job was 5 days a weeks, it would have a value of £1500, which sounds like a bloody good rate for one space for a CM. CM's correct me if I'm wrong.

I do think she is taking you for a ride.

What else does the contract say?

Does she want sick pay?
holiday pay?
Do you pay in full for your hols?

I would be reviewing the finer details of that contract with a magnifying glass before I signed it.

And, also, are there other CMs in the area? What do they charge? Whould you have another option if she walked away?

If your prospective CM is a member of the NCMA, or uses their contracts then it actually says in the smallprint on those that a retainer can't be charged unless a place is available!

Gosh, I am really lucky with my childminder then. She has been holding me a full time place for September and two for after school children. She hasn't charged me any retainer or deposit. Nothing.

Good luck! Ask to read her copy of this "ofsted" booklet. It doesn't sound like anything from Ofsted (they have nothing to do with the financial/contract side of childminding). It sounds like this booklet from camden council. However this says "Retainer fees should only be charged if the childminder is available for work and has a vacancy and the childminder is likely to lose potential income".

I think she's gotten in a bit of a muddle and if you have a chat with her hopefully she'll realise her mistake and accept a deposit instead.

Glad to be of service lol. Good Luck. Let us know how you get on.