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Original poster

Help - Nanny driving me CRAZY!!

83 replies

Babyrooboo · 29/05/2010 11:49

I would be grateful if anyone - especially other nannies - could give me some advice on how to deal with my nanny. I posted last week under a different name about our problem with her asking repeatedly about meeting up with her friends but there are a number of other issues which are becoming increasingly difficult to ignore. I am aware that I am now so furious with her that I am at risk of being a tad unreasonable . As I have decided that I will have to talk to her about how we feel next week, I feel that some perspective would be useful. She has now been working with us for 9 weeks but she has only been on her own with the children for the last 6. I have two DSs (3 and 1). The list of concerns are:

  1. She does not live local to us and commutes about 40 minutes by car. Within the first 2 weeks she she asked on numerous occasions if she could meet up with her nanny friends who live local to her or have them come to my house. I said that I didn't want her to drive them all over the country, so last week she asked if she could take them to meet her friends by train. It would be a long train journey with at least one change. She hadn't even researched it - she asked me to pick her up a train timetable!
  2. We are fortunate that we live in town and there is plenty to do but it would be useful if she could take them out on short trips. However, I am too scared to let her drive them around too much because it turns out that she has a speeding offence (as do I so not a big deal on it's own). However, when it came to putting her on our insurance she disclosed that she had made a huge claim on her insurance a few years ago following an accident that was her fault. Our insurance company wouldn't insure her at all. We agreed that she could use her car but I am not altogether comfortable with her driving them around.
  3. She disclosed that she has a history of Attention Deficit Disorder which means that, as a child at least, she had serious lapses in concentration. This makes me nervous but I have not seen any evidence of not being able to fully concentrate on my children - yet.
  4. She quickly got into a routine in which DS2 slept all morning in the buggy whilst DS1 was at preschool. DS2 would fall asleep on the way to preschool at 9am and she would quietly push him into the dining room on her return. When it was time to pick up DS1 at 12pm she would simply take DS1 out of the dining room still in buggy and head off for the preschool. Presumably he was still in the nappy that we put him in at 6am.
  5. After such an exciting morning - both children were treated to a trip to the park (DS2 again in the buggy). This routine was the same all three days she works. No art, no new fun games, no age appropriate varied activities. The same routine every day. I had told her that there are lots and lots of groups in our town and that we were happy to pay for any classes. I even gave her a magazine with all of the local classes in it.
  6. She asked for the password to our broadband internet so that she could use it on her iphone. As of yet we have seen no evidence for any work related research. I can only presume that she is using it solely for her own use. I don't mind of bit of this but it should also be used to research trips or activities.
  7. One day in week 6 of employment she admitted that the kids had not had such a great day because she had forgotten to hand in her essay to college - her solution was to drive my children to her college to hand it in. A trip that took them all afternoon. She said that she was able to pacify DS1 with chocolate but DS2 was not very happy.
  8. The next day she said that her commute had turned out to be more expensive than she imagined and could she have a pay rise. We said no - that it would be reviewed at the end of the year.
  9. With the all the sleeping in the buggy DS2 started to refuse to have naps in his cot during his days with me. It transpired that she had never really tried to get him to sleep in his cot - I guess she figured that the buggy is so much easier.

At this I became aware of all of this I set a review. I concluded that she is fundamentally a nice girl who needed more direction. I said that DS2 needs to relearn how to sleep in his cot and children need a varied routine with lots of age appropriate activity. Also told her again to look into groups and activities that the children could go to and would give her the opportunity to meet friend for her self.

  1. The next day DS2 was under the weather with a temperature. I decided to go to work but told her to take it easy and not worry to much about doing lots of things that day. Later that day I got a phone call from my neighbour saying that DS2 had been screaming for half an hour non-stop. Turns out she had used that day to reteach him how to fall asleep on his own. I told her that when a child is ill they will need to held a lot. I told her not to worry about it too much and because he was ill and now very distressed to hold and rock him until he is completely asleep and then put him in his cot.
10. She must still be doing this because now DS2 is now refusing to go into his cot awake. Last night I spent an hour trying to rock him to sleep. 10. I think that she lied to me about the children's afternoon naps the last day she was here this week. She managed to get both of them asleep at 2pm. She claims she woke them at 3pm. Neither child could fall asleep that night until after 9pm. This never happens so I think she let them sleep for a long time in the afternoon. 11. Despite the reminder about local groups, all she has managed to identify was a toddler group on the way back from DS1s nursery. She goes one morning a week. This is the only group/class that either of my children go to with her. As far as I am aware nothing is planned for half term. 12. She is not managing to engage DS1 who now says that he does not like her. It is hard to say how much of this is due to him not wanting me to leave. She has admitted that she finds it difficult to motivate him and he often says no to the activities that she suggests. I told her that she needs to set up the activities and make them appear exciting. She says this has helped. 13. I am sure that she thinks that I am a killjoy because all of the activities she has suggested I have said no to. She wanted to take them both swimming once a week. I wouldn't even dream of taking them both swimming on my own. Trips really far away from our home. Why can't she find anything local to do? 14. DS1s eating has taken a setback. He is a fussy eater anyway. I found out that she was offering him lots of options to get him to eat. One day she gave him sweetened popcorn instead of a meal "to make sure he had something to eat". He now tried to negotiate with us at mealtimes and often refuses whole meals.

I am trying to hold onto my belief that she is a nice person but every now and again I think that she is just taking the piss. I don't want to fire her before we have a really good go at working it out. However, I really don't think that she knows what she is doing and much of the time it really feels like babysitting and nothing more. Am I unreasonable to expect more from a nanny? I feel like I will need to do all of the planning for her and teach her about really basic childcare such as the need to teach children how to fall asleep on their own and how to motivate a 3 year old.

I am sorry that this is so long but I am at the end of my tether. I plan to talk to her next week and need some help.

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Set a reminder
blueshoes · 30/05/2010 00:29

Babyroo, by all means go through the proper sacking procedures.

She is taking the piss, wants an easy job and probably lying to you about what goes on behind your back. Your dcs are not old enough to snitch on her. When I got suspicious after a few weeks, I got my 6 year old to tell me what was going on.

The best case scenario is she can improve. But she needs a serious reality check before she will be willing to do that. That means she needs to be sacked first. It won't be on your job that she improves.

Don't waste your time.

Missus84 · 30/05/2010 00:02

Also, I think most experienced nannies go into a new job expecting to be able to organise their day themselves, and make day to day decisions about the children. Most nanny employers expect an experienced nanny to be able to use their initiative and get on with things without constantly referring back to them. That's not the same as "some nannies think that they have the right to do what ever they want with someone else's children."

Missus84 · 29/05/2010 23:59

Did you actually check her references yourself?

It sounds to me that if you want to keep her, you need to spell out really clearly what you want from her. It does not sound like it's going to be the kind of nanny -employer relationship where you trust her to just get on with things.

Write her a timetable of activities to take the children too, meal plan with her, give her a daily timetable of when and where you want the children to sleep.

Are you in a probation period at the moment? I believe in the first year of employment you can terminate employment if it's not working out just by giving her notice.

faerie07 · 29/05/2010 23:47

Babyrooboo - Sorry to hear it is getting worse for you. If you need to chat away from here drop me an email on faerieprincess @ bt internet. com (without the spaces).

faerie07 · 29/05/2010 23:45

I would be happy for her to do an all day trip now, but I would want it to be more local (say 20 minute train trip), and certainly not on a very hot day.

She has done trips that last about 4 hours but none any longer than that. The all day trips have been with me in the car.

But I wouldn't want to hear about needing to leave 'extra early' and being back home later than normal finishing time. (Her 'all day' trip sounded like needing to leave before 8.00 am and not getting home until well after 5.00 pm.).

TBH there is only 1 day where she could do those trips as DS1 does 2 half days at nursery.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/05/2010 23:45

I don't think you can 100% blame your nanny for ds2 bad sleep

She is there 3 days and you 4 days

if you rock him 4 days he will expect and need it the other 3 days which makes the nannys job much harder in trying to get him to sleep alone in his cot

think you both need to sit down together and discuss routines/sleep/food and how to overcome these problems with both of you doing the same

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/05/2010 23:30

Gotcha

Maybe as you work from home you get more control/say then other mb's do as you see what is going on

what would it take for you to trust your nanny to go out for the whole day? ESP as summer is coming up and nice to go out to the park/zoo/beach

but in the end it does come down to trust and as both your and op nanny haven't been with you for long they need to gain your trust and confidence - tho assume you must have had some faith in them or wouldn't have employed them in the first place iyswim

Original poster
Babyrooboo · 29/05/2010 23:29

Thank you all so much for your messages. Mumsnet is so fantastic. I have been checking them throughout the day and talking to DH about how we are going to manage this situation. However,it has been such a stressful and busy day - mostly because DS2s sleep routine is all over the place - that I haven't had a chance to reply to any.

A few of you asked questions about the nanny - she is 26, we found her through an agency, she had good written references, she has had two nannying jobs before and nursery experience. On paper and in interview she was great.

We had a three week overlap in which she basically observed what I did with the children. I also explained very clearly why we did things certain ways and we open to discussion. We appeared to have similar ideas about being clear and having firm boundaries with the children.

Thank you so much to those who gave examples of activities they do with their children. If she did even quarter of them then we wouldn't be in this position. I have no problem with activities being routine and repetitive so long as something is happening. I will give her some ideas off your lists. Even going to the local library or feeding the ducks would be something.

Although we would love to sack her and start again, we don't feel that we can. Employment law states that we have to give her an opportunity to sort herself out and I don't really want to treat her unfairly anyway. So, I will meet with her on Tuesday and attempt to have an honest discussion with her. We will have our concerns written in a letter so that she has something to look at and take away. I think that she basically needs more support with establishing a sleep routine and accessing the groups that the local area has to offer. I think that she is also partly taking the piss and we will have to call her on that.

Faerie07 - it is nice to see you again on this post and I was pleased to hear that your nanny is better in some areas. I still 100% support your decision to not agree to the trip to the beach. I guess that the other nannies who have posted here are more trustworthy. However, when you suspect that they are only going there to meet friends then of course you are going to say no.

I am sorry if this causes offence but I find it really hard to accept that some nannies think that they have the right to do what ever they want with someone else's children. It is fine if you have built up a trusting relationship and the employer trusts the nanny to make good judgements. However, I have not had a chance to do so. Furthermore, everytime she makes requests to meet her friends when she has never once even taken them to feed the ducks or to the library or even a short train journey to the next town then I trust her less. Not one of her suggestions so far appears to meet my children's needs before her own. If she had asked me about the long train trip a few months into the post after building up some trust then I might have responded differently. I also cannot understand why people think that I should allow her to bring her friends to my house. After all, I don't ask if I can bring my friends into my workplace. How exactly does it benefit my children to have her friends and their charges round to his house? What if he doesn't get on with the children they bring. What if it is some older child who domineers over him? Where do I stand if something is stolen from my house or if a child has an accident. I do not feel that I can trust the nanny to manage any of these possibilities.

colditz - there have been lots of people on this post who have not seen my point of view or said that IABU. I have no problem with that whatsoever. However, I found your post to be particularly offensive and perhaps, for some reason, you intended it to be so. I am far from fickle or passive about the childcare I want for my children. Although my eldest DS is only 3.5 I am an experienced child clinical psychologist and I know a great deal about child development and behaviour. Therefore, I do not need you to tell me that children sometimes sleep too long or that they sometimes change their sleeping habits, or that they sometimes "manipulate" their parents. My children were doing very well with regards to their sleep, eating and behaviour before I returned to work. However, as I psychologist - and I hope a reasonable person - I am aware that other people might do different things to achieve the same result. What you have interpreted as lack of clarity with the nanny was in fact me giving her to space to do things her way. I presumed - because she told me - that she knew what she was doing. But COME ON Colditz, within 3 weeks of being with her DS2 could only fall asleep in his buggy. This has made life impossible for us. I am now spending hours everyday rocking him to sleep and DS1 is being left alone. It is not good enough. And she does NOTHING with them.

Sorry if there are spelling mistakes in this. I need to go to bed.

OP posts:
faerie07 · 29/05/2010 23:15

Blondeshavemorefun - you misunderstood me re the all day part. She has had sole charge of the children all day. She hasn't taken them out for a whole day. She has taken them out for part of the day and looked after them at home for the other parts of the day. To me this is different. This is her first nannying position and although she does lots of 'fun' things with the DCs, she isn't always that organised but is slowly getting better.

I work from home so am more involved than other MB would be I guess. I also have times where I do things with one of the children while she looks after the other one, or we all go out somewhere together, and on those times she is part helper, part nanny.

Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 29/05/2010 23:01

I finally scrapbooked 6 months worth of photos the other day Nick and I still have a huge pile of pictures (2 months worth) for another album!!

Agree that if you don't feel the trust in the first week or so then you probably won't.

OP what would you need for you to trust your nanny or do you think you should just start again with someone else?

nannynick · 29/05/2010 22:48

Photos of where we have been I feel help a lot towards showing to parents that their children liked the trip. Reminds me that I have not uploaded this weeks photos yet.

Trust is probably the key issue - the OP does not trust her nanny, yet. It's been 9 weeks yet trust is not there yet. Will it ever be there? If someone can not trust their nanny then it's just not going to work.

Lifeinagoldfishbowl · 29/05/2010 22:39

I also don't "ask permission" for outings - if I think that it's appropriate and my charge will like it we tend to do it - we might mention it to mb if it's something a little while in the future but spur of the moment trips out ie train rides, visiting the beach etc then we tend to tell her when she gets back that evening and asks what we've done today.

I always take lots of photos so she can see what we've done and why we might have gone, but she trusts me with her child and therefore trusts my judgement in any issues regarding our day/activities/friends etc.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/05/2010 22:35

faerie07 a lot of reasons. The train journey would be long but then again I have taken kids up to London zoo and been 90mins each way with train/tube/bus etc

yes temperatures are hot but shade/cream/hat etc and baby will be fine

Not having both all day sole charge seems weird tho I do understand your concerns I think you should give the nanny some slack

nannynick - I also don't ask for permission to do stuff. I discuss at interviews that I am a very sociable nanny and go out to beach/park/zoo/museum/ etc and I have free reign to do what I like

if trips are organised I prob would mention where we are going on the day but don't ask. Once there I send emails with pics which both db/mb love

basically my mb/db trust me and my judgement otherwise it would be no point in me being their nanny

faerie07 · 29/05/2010 22:32

Nannynick - I suspect your nannying experience is a great deal broader than my nanny's! And her mother is only a few years oldler than I am so I look at her and see a child (not fair to her as she is in her mid 20s but there you go!!)

lobsters · 29/05/2010 22:12

My nanny is older than me, for outings in our village (new toddler group or park) she won't mention it as it will generally be a last minute decision as the usual plans have fallen through. She generally mentions outings slightly further afield, but it's not really for permission.

To the OP, you mention that your nanny wanted her friends to come over to you, were you happy with that? That would get over some of your concerns about outings.

She does sound yound and inexperienced, but like the others have said, I think she might be getting mixed messages from you, for example about sleeping. But if this is a ultimately a personality thing, then it's probably not going to work

nannynick · 29/05/2010 22:00

Am I the only nanny who does not ask their boss for permission to take children on an outing?
Maybe I'm lucky in having a boss who will let me do what I like.
Wonder if being older than my boss helps?

faerie07 · 29/05/2010 21:43

In no particular order:

  • Nanny doesn't drive - Beach is about 1 1/2 hours away by train - so 3 hours train journey to be done in one day;
  • DS2 is only 9 months old, so feel the hot day was too much risk for him - not sure if he will turn out to have DH's or my colouring, if mine will be ok, if DH's, just 10 minutes in the sun will make him burn...!!!
  • Nanny has done lots of outings - but has not done a 'full' day with both children locally where she would have back up and an easy way home if needed as practice (and carrying all the gear she would need for a whole day;
  • Nanny has on occasion walked too far with DS1 and he hasn't coped with the walk back home and nanny has had to then carry him the remainder of the way home (he's 3 and she hurt herself!);
  • Is impatient with public transport and will often walk because she can't be bothered waiting 20 minutes for a bus - leading to some of the overdoing it with DS1.
  • Nanny doesn't have the best time management, and will often be back later from outings than she is meant to be (once had a child coming over for a play date and I had to go and fetch them to get them home in time);
  • She wanted to do the trip before the school holidays and only mentioned it on Monday late in the day which meant she needed to do it Wednesday (only day free for DS1 and she isn't with us on Tuesdays) and had done no planning or research but just assumed it would be ok because of what her friend had said about the facilities;
  • On this occasion I suspected she wanted to meet up with a friend of hers who had a child, judging by what the nanny herself has told me about this friend she is a rather unreliable person who has done odd things with her DS (well things that I find odd and would not be comfortable with) so not happy with that idea.

So in this case I said I wasn't comfortable with the idea and would prefer she didn't.

If it had been left at that it wouldn't have been an issue, but she threw a strop and I got annoyed with her and tell her 'absolutely not'.

At a later point in time I possibly wouldn't mind, and on this occasion if it was just DS1 (3) I probably would have been ok, but not with the both of them.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/05/2010 21:07

Completly off the topic but faerie07 why did you not allow your nanny to go to the beach?

it's a fun day out in the fresh air and you can go hunting in rock pools for crabs/small fish/find pretty shells to take home and paint/jump the waves/build sandcastles etc

We try and go to the beach at least once in the summer and all my charges have loved it and toddler slept in the buggy in the shade

I'm about an hour from the coast so obv drive there and go on motorways etc

tho regardless of you saying no, the nanny shouldn't strop but sounds like she does fun artistic activities with your children and plans fun but educational things to do so curious why you said no

I also make cards for mothers/fathers/valentine/Easter/Christmas/birthday etc and MB/db love getting them

PickUpYourPants · 29/05/2010 19:22

Not read to the end but we had different nanny over about 7 years.
OP you need to look at the contract that you have with this Nanny and move to dismiss her, bad habits don't go away totally ever.
A good nanny is like gold dust, my first lasted less than a week, she just could not cope, I had spent ages researching, and recruiting before employing her. The 2nd was an emergency from the agency never even interviewed her, she just turned up! She was absolutely brilliant got my DC into a routine with clubs etc just like nannynick talks about.
You can do so much better, make the hard decision.

colditz · 29/05/2010 18:58

Although your nanny sounds a little selfish and immature, you sound fickle and passive about the care you want for your children

Half the things you are complaining about are things you have asked her to do - cot train/stop cot training and hold baby - organise activities/don't go swimming or out of local area - establish sleep routine/change that routine/change it back when it doesnw't suit you...

Children do sometimes sleep too long. Children do sometimes change their sleeping habits. Children do sometimes manipulate their parents - you are moaning that she is inexperienced, but I think YOUR inexperience as parents means you aren't making allowances for normal child development and behavior.

faerie07 · 29/05/2010 18:35

Oh Babyrooboo, sorry about your nanny!

As upset as I am about my nanny throwing a strop about my not letting her do the day trip to the beach, she would never do the things you're talking about!

My DS has done things with his nanny like:

Making cards to send people;
made a spacerocket; dinosaur, hand and foot print pictures
pictures for me for mothers day (from both DS, even the then 7 month old)
home made plasticine
spashing 'pool' on the hot days

They often go for long walks, visit the ducks, go to playground

They made Christmas decorations with pine cones and paper chains

And many, many more.

DS2 naps in his cot but if he's feeling off colour and won't settle then she'll occasionally take them for a walk and let him go to sleep in the push chair.

These are pretty standard things which someone who has an interest in children and a little bit of training should be able to do without a problem.

TBH, because of all of this I am willing to tolerate her bouts of juvenile behaviour (as long as they are just occasional!)

I would say that you need to seriously consider dismissing her. Did you give her a probationary period in her contract? If so, and you don't want to dismiss her just yet you could have a proper sit down discussion about your issues and extend her probationary period, but make sure you do it in writing.

Missus84 · 29/05/2010 16:37

"oh dear, a few of the things arent that bad on their own, but all points put together not good tbh"

This is exactly it - one or two things on their own wouldn't be an issue, but all in all it adds up to her being quite clueless and you not being confident in her.

Blondeshavemorefun · 29/05/2010 15:24

oh dear, a few of the things arent that bad on their own, but all points put together not good tbh

1.40mins isnt that far and tbh would it be that bad to allow her one a month to do so 1/12 days if going to be children the same age

2, you want her to do things but then say you are scared about her driving - i have points,my mb and db both do as well and yes i have been in accidents, i managed to roll current jobs car with kids in it 3 years ago (not my fault) so you are saying you want her to get out and about,but she cant drive them, so only walkable groups etc

maybe you can go in the car with her to see what her driving is like

3.she was honest and tbh didnt have to tell you

  1. did ds2 sleep all the 2.5/3hrsin the buggy? seems a very long sleep if just up 7am or so

5, parks are nice but not every day - maybe you need to join her to some weekely activites, ie tumbletots/music etc so she has something to do each week

  1. many nannies including myself have iphones and use internet during the day - fine as long as not all the time and kids not neglected, errands,yes sometimes nannys will do unwork stuff with kids but bribing with chocolate
  1. cheeky, she should have worked this out,well done for saying no, jobs dont pay travelling to/from exspenses

8/9/10 she was trying to do as you said but obv if a child is ill then sleep training isnt going to work,also she is there 3 days what do you do the other 4?

11/12/13 she sounds lonely and is trying by going to toddler group, what activites is she setting up and why cant she take your 2 swimming, you say YOU cant cope with 2 children, i have always taken 2 children swimming, but now cant take my charges as have 3 under 8, though 2 eldest can swim, so may tell a small white lie in summer and say eldest is 8 (is 7 3/4) or we can never go anymore unless have a friend who has one child

  1. omg popcorn

where did you find her from?did she have any exp/ref whaich you checked what did they say?

in the end you are not happy and therefore you need to give your nanny notice

nannynick · 29/05/2010 15:24

aeroplaces! I really should spell check things. Should be Aeroplanes

nannynick · 29/05/2010 15:24

pinkfizzle, IMO a nanny won't do the same things as a nursery worker. Some will be the same but some will be different.

A nanny will be able to focus far more on the needs of the individual child, so can run with anything that has caught that child's imagination. Nurseries find that hard to do IMO as they need to do things for all the children in the group.

Sure a nanny may do craft activities... will often read stories, will make playdough, help with jigsaws, Duplo/Lego building, make a camp out of the sofa cushions (oh, nursery won't usually do that!), make cakes (again not all nurseries do that), build the wooden castle, get the train set out, roll around on the grass looking at the lines made by the aeroplaces in the sky (hmm, wonder how often that happens at nursery), going for walks in the local area to feed the ducks or see the horses (not all nurseries do that), build with interconnecting shapes, play with toy cars and people. Could go on and on... some of the things a nursery would do... some of the things they would not do.

Thus I do not feel that they are the same.

Nursery may do more messy things... such as painting, as they have the facility to clear up that mess better. Private homes don't always have a place where messy things can be done... so some things a nursery does many no be done at home due to a lack of facilities.