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Original poster

Dodgy nanny employment practices

65 replies

butadream · 18/03/2010 13:58

We've just advertised for a nanny and TBH [naive emoticon] I'm shocked at how many seem to be exploited at the moment.

We've seen quite a few CVs from Romanians, Bulgarians and Turkish people who are "self-employed" nannies - but a nanny is always an employee under UK law so if they are "self-employed" then the family employing them at the moment is carrying out tax avoidance. I'm also pretty sure it's against immigration rules (well, it is for Romania and Bulgaria as I know they are "A2" European countries, I don't know quite what the position is for Turkey) unless they have a visa that doesn't just relate to their nationality.

We've also seen quite a few Phillippine applicants with and without British passports who are working as "nanny housekeepers" with apparently huge workloads and I'll bet not much pay.

From the applicants we've seen it seems quite common practice to be a dodgy employer even though you'd imagine most nanny employers have responsible jobs.

Must be tough for real nannies to find a decent employer if the black market in childcare is so huge.

If I were HMRC I think I'd do an advertising sting with the police (if that's legal) and fine all these "employers" to the hilt.

OP posts:
butadream · 18/03/2010 18:21

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Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 18:17

Our nanny is quite likely to have more disposable income than us. But she is also likely not going to have a nice house like us and won't be able to afford to invest in career as we have done pre-children and won't be able to have as nice holidays as we will once our children are old enough not to need a nanny any more. So that kind of comment is out of order.

No wonder so many nanny-employer relationships appear to be difficult ("you just can't get the staff these days, dahling") if they are built on such substandard foundations. WTF should a nanny be the most pure and honest and delightful person in the world when the employers are taking the piss from day 1?

OP posts:
nannyj · 18/03/2010 18:14

I used to work in Sloane Square and the police would sometimes do stings at the tube exit and check peoples visa's. I've found alot of employers resent the large salary because if you're a live in nanny you have a big disposable income and no bills. My boss used to comment that i had more money than her!

Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 17:52

Unfortunately it puts me off hiring a legitimate (e.g. married to a British person visa) Filipina or Bulgarian or whatever as I think my friends and neighbours would put me in that "modern-day slaver" bracket - that's another sort of racist discrimination on my part though isn't it?

OP posts:
dizietsma · 18/03/2010 17:33

Agree completely Tavvy. If not exactly slavery then exploitation at an extreme level, utterly disgusting IMO.

I've heard of a lot of employer tax evasion and general shenanigans through nannies I've met at playgroups, without fail it's always the richest families pulling these stunts, it sickens me. Two that immediately spring to mind were the nanny of a Barrister and the nanny of a Banker.

In the case of exploiting foreign nannies, I just can't understand valuing your children so little that you pay a pittance to the person who is caring for them the majority of the time. You're basically teaching your kids that some people (foreign people) aren't worth as much as other people, it's pure racism.

Tavvy · 18/03/2010 17:17

This one sends me. I have had more interviews with parents (often fantastically rich) wanting an 'under the table' arrangement.
In my last job I was the only legit member of staff and my boss resented every penny.
In my experience the Filipino nanny-housekeeper unless the children are at full time school is modern day language for slavery, which supposedly has been outlawed in this country.
Most employers don't look on it as exploitation and will tell themselves the most fantastic lies to make themselves believe it.
Welcome to the dark side.
Nannying is an ugly industry dressed up in a pretty dress with a frilly umbrella. Oh and a spoonful of sugar of course.

To get of the cynical high horse it's really nice to hear an EMPLOYER bemoaning the situation. Hope you find your Mary Poppins and I'm sure you will be a fab employer to work for

Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 16:28

There must be some other implications too. I would lose my job if I did dodgy things.

What would happen in an emergency - I would worry an illegal nanny might wait before calling an ambulance or the police in case questions were asked?

OP posts:
Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 16:17

"forced by circumstances" - yes, the circumstances are that they are only legally allowed to work in the UK as self-employed people, not as employees. So not as nannies.

Presumably employer's liability insurance is invalid if you have an illegal employee.

OP posts:
NannyNorthLlondon · 18/03/2010 16:10

Most romanians are forced by circumstances to register as Self-Employed so they can receive the Registration Certificate(Blue card).It can be tough to find a nanny-employer that will agree to declare every penny and to pay the tax that they should pay.
I believe the fault is on both sides, nannies because they take jobs like that and employers because they dont want to do the things by the law.But at the end of the day , as Missus84 was saying is better to have a job like that,than not to have any.

Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 16:06

Seriously, HMRC have to find tons of money for the Treasury nowadays, I would expect PAYE audits to be extended to this kind of employer sooner rather than later ....

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Missus84 · 18/03/2010 15:42

It can be tough as a nanny to find an employer who'll pay you 100% legit - I'm sure most nannies would rather be paid properly but if that's not an option it's better to be working than not. I've had interviews where they've insisted I'd have to be self-employed, and when I've pointed out why that's not possible - no job offer. My last job they only paid tax on half my salary, but that's better than nothing.

Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 14:56

We have a Bulgarian cleaner, she is genuinely self-employed, we pay market rate and the agency has employer's insurance so I am pretty sure that is all on the level.

Presumably these illegal nannies are working without employer's insurance - doesn't that cause a problem both ways?

Can't believe people are so blasé, I am recruiting for sole charge of my children who are beyond precious to me so why would I or anyone go through the back door for this?

OP posts:
frakkinaround · 18/03/2010 14:28

I'm also sick of people thinking they can evade paying what should be part of a nanny's salary! It's 6 of one, half a dozen of the other though. Plenty of people don't want to pay tax because they think they'll cream off more as a net salary. They don't seem to realise they're shooting themselves in the foot. Likewise those who declare min wage and have another £100 eveery week under the table. It's silly....

Likewise self-employed 'nannies' get on my nerves. There are situations where a nanny can be self-employed, they are very very rare and 90% of nannies don't meet them! Incidentally Romanians and Bulgarians can be self-employed, Turkish nationals are on tricky territoy as they would need the correct visa to still be here and working. The UK stopped admitting Turkish au pairs when all the visa rules changed.

Original poster
butadream · 18/03/2010 14:11

LOL yes can imagine people pay for a "supernanny"

OP posts:
wrinklyraisin · 18/03/2010 14:09

I found that here too. I am one of the few legit nannies I know. Although I also am having issues with getting my employers to pay full taxes etc... they and their friends all think I am grossly overpaid etc as they could get a Filippina for less. Makes me so cross as these same friends then come to ME saying "what do we do in this situation?" and expect free advice!!! To be honest as a "professional" nanny I am so sick of the majority of employers evading taxes, wanting to pay peanuts, wanting full housekeeping done, etc etc etc that I am hoping to break out of nannying into more of a consulting role as parents ironicaly will pay an "expert" loads of money but having that same "expert" as their fulltime nanny would warrant a 50% paycut.

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