advertising for a nanny - should I mention proposed pay or not?

Hm on nanny sites people often come and ask what they should be earning and get replies with the standard 'according to age, experience, hours, qualifications' and then a range. Quite often people have quite unrealistic expectations of their earning potential, particularly inexperienced and often unqualified nannies who are pitching themselves against nannies with 5-10 years and wondering why they're not getting jobs. Most people can place themselves somewhere on the scale but it is an issue of confidence as well. Some nannies price themselves unrealistically high, others are bargains at twice the price but most know roughly what other nannies of their status are getting. For example I price myself quite high and get what I ask for but equally I appeal to a relatively niche market who will pay for my profile.

MILLARKIE if an ad didnt have a salary in it, then i would def ask/email and say what I wanted - have done this a few times and often i get an email saying i want too much/cant afford me - which is fine

Oh we totally should - the MN guide to nannies, au pairs and everything in between.

Staring the salary is the right thing to do. I prefer a single figure and then negotiable for the right candidate.

Most nannies think they know what they're worth to themselves but that may not tally up for an employer! Asking nannies what they're getting in their current position may be a good guide - suspect agencies have stashes of such data which they may or may not analyse!

Nick you are right and I value education etc. too; was not implying this is the right criteria; just that you need to be able to explain yourself if you offer a range.

I know someone who hired a nanny through an agency, nanny agreed to the offered wage but between signing contract and starting the job the agency let slip the 'top of the range' salary that the family would have offered (to a suitably qualified experienced nanny) which was a little higher than the amount nanny had been offered. Cue a disgruntled employee from day one.
That would stop me from offering a range - I have to admit I tend to advertise without a salary and ask the better applicants what salary range they are looking for, but then maybe I would be missing out on the most fab nannies this way

You also have the problem of determining what experience you count and what you don't. Childcare jobs can vary quite a bit in terms of amount of responsibility someone has, also the ages of the children for whom they have cared will vary.
Some nannies will have experience of other types of work... how would that count in the 10 years approach? It may not count at all, or it may count to a lesser extent than a job directly in childcare. I don't know... how do you evaluate this kind of thing. A nanny may not have always been a nanny.

You can't have it all ways. I advertise gross but I advertise a range (like in nearly all "normal" job ads). You then get offered against experience; can request more and may or may not get it.

However, you need to have clear logic in your head for this e.g. 10 yrs top etc. and be able to explain yourself.

why thank you nannyl

blondes i agree with you

The views of nannies like me who post on mumsnet are not likely to represent the views of a typical nanny, in my opinion. We tend to be the more clued up nannies, those who understand Gross salaries, those who have a mortgage or other long-term financial commitment. Nannies... would you agree with that?

agree nick

problem with range is that some nannies get miffed if they dont get top wack, regardless if they only have a few years exp - so if ad says 8-10, they want 10 - and if you offer them 8, they will begrudge the fact you would have/could have paid £10

i think i might have changed my mind somewhat about range. i suppose if you were at the lower end you might try your luck at a job offerrring a higher fixed figure and applicants applying to the range might be the ones 'knowing' they could get the higher amount. maybe. i still like seeing it myself though; it feels inclusive.

When we advertised before Christmas for a nanny we didn't consider includng salary details but that's probably because we were first-timers.

We advertised on SimplyChildcare and a couple of other places and asked interested candidates to send a CV along with details of their current/expected salary for this position.

It worked for us this time but I guess we'll be wiser next time around!

If you are intending keeping your cleaner on, then I would def mention it in the Ad. This can be a real draw card to a nanny!

I think another thing to mention, is that when writing the Ad, make it person, tell a bit about your family. It's not an office job, so it's better not to sound like one!

I would have thought that having a cleaner is an indirect benefit for the nanny, too - should mean a clean and tidy house (not that I am saying that you wouldn't keep it tidy yourself, but I hope you know what I mean). Wouldn't mention it in the ad but would mention in the interview, making clear what nursery duties she would be expected to undertake.
I agree with others that I wouldn't give a range because people will expect the higher end and they'll either be miffed because you don't think they're experienced or qualified enough to merit the higher wage or they'll be puzzled why you apparently compromised, hiring at the lower end of the stated range.

Oh - and i forgot to say do advertise proposed payment. I'm another nanny who wouldn't consider an ad without knowing the wage.

NoMoreSleep - if i were you i would advertise a rate you can pay comfortably (and keep the cleaner you obviously want ). There will be nannies who do not apply because they want a higher wage, but then there is always the possibility that there is someone better out there. A higher wage does not necessarily mean a better nanny - I know 'top wage' nannies that quite frankly shouldn't be anywhere near small children, and newly qualified nannies I would be delighted to leave my charges with. If you do not find a great candidate within a set time frame then surely you can readvertise at the higher rate?

I can just envision a post 6 months down the line about giving up your cleaner to pay a supposedly amazing nanny a better wage only to find out shes mediocre at best and you are feeling resentful cleaning and looking after 2 small children every weekend. Take care of yourself too

I don't know how the 30 hours a week is made up, but if it is 10 hours a day for 3 days, and the person that gets the job already has a job for the other 2 days they will work for you with a tax code of BR. If you have agreed a net salary, this is going to cost you an additional £41 a week!

Net salaries belong to a different age when people's lives (and tax affairs) were simpler.

HMRC: Tax Codes - more info about various tax codes.

The tax code can change. If you have agreed a net pay figure, you would still need to have the resulting pay figure be the same.

If you were to pay £9 per hour net, for 50 hours per week. With tax code 647L it works out currently to be 31,218 gross per year.

If change the tax code to 325L, then gross pay increases to 32,152 to achieve the same £9 per hour net figure.

If the tax code changes to BR (so all their tax free allowance is used by their other job), then gross pay increases to 33,095 to get the same 9 net per hour.

As the Gross pay figure changes, there are also Employer NI changes.

Thus why I feel it's important for employers to agree a Gross salary, as then if there are any tax code changes (which there can be, even if the person does not have any other job) then the amount you pay as the employer won't change by a huge amount.

That's my understanding of it. Anyone else fancy trying to explain things?

gosh, am being really stupid here but what difference does it make to net/gross salary if they do bits and pieces of work for someone else?

nomoresleep

Can I ask though - if the job said £9ph and you were looking for £10, would you apply anyway but say you would be looking for more £ or would you not bother applying?

I would consider the amount specified to be the realistic amount the family would be paying. I would prefer to see it as annual gross but that's just my preference having been in previous lines of work prior to nannying. You could put a range but by doing so you would get people wanting the top salary. I feel it's better offering the typical amount you would be paying... then finding a candidate to suit that. If you get a candidate who is super, you could always raise the salary after the initial trial period.

If I was looking for £10net per hour (which I wouldn't be in my area, as realistic rates are less than that where I am in Surrey outside of the M25 - current typical rates for 50 hours in my area seem to be £22k-£26k), then I wouldn't apply for a job only paying £9 per hour net.
Compare the gross figures (based on a 50 hour week): If £10 net per hour £34,997 v If £9 net per hour £31,218. Would you apply for a job paying nearly £4000 less than you wanted?

I would far prefer to start working for someone who offered a salary which met my requirement and which they could afford without a struggle. If they then felt I was great, then a salary increase after say 6 months would be wonderful. A salary increase each year would be wonderful. A nice Christmas bonus would be wonderful.

Mummyinthedark:

"Pay: in line with market rates, willing to flex to reflect experience" then mention any additional benefits like gym membership, use of car or whatever.
I would probably not look at the job. If it was very local to me then maybe I would get in touch but my first question would be - how much are you offering to pay.
Market rates change and are hard to calculate in the first place. The data isn't there to use, when I give an indication of local rates (as above) I look at the current job listings at agencies I trust and from those estimate what the range is on that current day.
Gym Membership - I'm thinking of having it myself actually but I would want to be able to select which gym it was at and have it even if I left the job, thus I would need to pay for it myself wouldn't I?
A car would not be of interest to me as I have my own. Providing a 'company car' is a big cost to the employer... if you are considering offering that, do look into the tax implications. MrAnchovy may be able to advise you best on that.

If you want to play safe, provide a salary range but keep it quite tight as £1 per hour can make a big difference over a year. I would say use Gross Per Annum and Net Per Week figures. Then those in other lines of work can compare their current Gross per Annum and those in Net paid jobs can compare their current Net Per Week figure.

The views of nannies like me who post on mumsnet are not likely to represent the views of a typical nanny, in my opinion. We tend to be the more clued up nannies, those who understand Gross salaries, those who have a mortgage or other long-term financial commitment. Nannies... would you agree with that?

I wouldn't apply for a job ad with no pay - have been burned before going to an interview for a "perfect" job only to find their idea of great rate of pay is £200 a week

Could you put "£9 net per hour (possibly negotiable for exceptional candidates)". I agree that if you put a range, everyone applying will want the top end of the range!