Reconciling nannies' needs and employers' needs

Interesting but then there's the other meaning of professional being the opposite of amateur, like a professional footballer meaning someone who makes a profession (as in career/life choice) out of their job.

I agree that some childcare does fall into that category and feel perhaps that more should - does that count as professionalisation?

thats weird maria but very true

i have a great cv (im modest) and i have gone for interviews and then the family shown me the cv the agency sent and asked me about a job, and the agency had retyped my cv and tbh it was awful - mine was much better laid out

It's not really off topic. It's part of the wider debate about professionalism and how nannies present themselves. Clearly employers want nannies who present themselves well. It's what you said about making an effort, Maria. Plus a badly presented CV isn't very professional IMO.

There are interesting debates going on all over the place about how professionalism is defined and a qualification is one way. What are the other markers, though, and how can you assess them?

For me common sense is THE most important thing. How do you check for it? Well you have to go on gut instinct don't you. And have a second and third interview, and see nanny's interaction with your child. TBH for me formal education is not my first priority, but I do pay attention to spelling/grammar in CVS. I have to admit I'm a bit of a snob with that, have discarded many CVs just because of poor spelling/gramma. Or maybe its not being a snob, I just believe that if someone can't go to the effort to prepare a good CV & give it to someone more knowledgable to check for them, then I assume they're not going to be making that much of an effort in the everyday ins & outs of the job, if you see what I mean.

I also have noticed that some nannies who I've interviewed through agencies STILL have very bad CVs!! How can this be?! Do the agencies don't want to encourage their nannies to present themselves in the best possible way?

Anyway I suppose this is off topic...

we can ALL dream for you

you have some awful bad luck (dont think thats proper grammer, but ykwim)

but hopefully you are sorted now x

if i work 5days a week, i earn £35k - as do other older nannies like myself

You had some very bad luck. Did you get someone in the end?

Boffinmum, why the ?

Just for those that said they'd never heard of a nanny on 30k.

DP is a nanny earning 38k in Central London, I'm earning 36k in Southwest London. She is British, qualified, Ofsted registered. I am a native English speaker, unqualified, not Ofsted registered.

So we do exist, on both ends of the spectrum!

I think the 'what if scenarios' can work but the nannies are prepared for the standard ones so you will have to be creative.

Re education i think it is not black and white. A girl who left school at 16 because she didn't like school and she is dull with no interests and hobbies or thirst for learning would be a no no for me.
But a girl who left school because of family problems or else and she is full of life and a passion for music or sports or drama would be fine.
You can have a nanny with 3 degrees who works and eats and sleeps. Who has a pessimist attidude and a negative language.
I would like someone who is 'i love challenges', 'of course you can do it', 'why not', 'lets try this'....
I think when somebody spends 10 hours a day with your child she/he passes on to the child more than the alphabet, her outlook to life will have more impact.

Of course in an ideal world you will go for the nanny who has both education and personality. But if i have to choose then i 'll go for the personality.

I know lots of very smart people who dont have an ounce of common sense

That I can believe. Trouble is, how do you know who does and who doesn't have sufficient common sense to be a nanny?
If all parents are given to go on is a CV, how do you know that someone has an ounce of common sense (ideally more than an ounce)?
What If scenarios at interview may go some way to establishing how much common sense an applicant may have... though not sure how well that method would work - has anyone tried to evaluate the level of an applicants common sense?

Yes, I think some of the problem is related to the fact that quite often you're dealing either with quite inexperienced people, who will tend to worry unduly about negative feedback, or with the legacy of previous employers treating nannies poorly, so that criticism was often unreasonable or the precursor to some frankly abusive behaviour.

And it's a good point about the feedback/career development thing, actually: with my first nanny we had a system of six monthly reviews - she was, after all, fairly inexperienced - and it was really helpful to sit down and say: 'this is going really well, these are the areas where I have some concerns, these are the challenges I see coming up over the next six months, what do you think?' I have let that system slip with our current nanny (much more experienced) and I am rather regretting it.

I take Foxinsocks' point about formal education not being an absolute precursor to nannying skills (observe how I bestride my fence! ) but perhaps I should refine the point - it's primarily an advantage for the parents, in that it often means someone has worked in an environment outside nannying so has an idea of how a line management relationship typically works. Also,I have a school age DS and the nanny is sometimes helping him with his homework, so I'm categorically not going to employ someone who hasn't got a basic degree of literacy.

In my day job, I tend to give feedback as I go along, so everyone always knows where they stand with me, both when they have done a great job, and not so great. Once I got over my initial nervousness, that's how I have approached my relationship with my nanny. If she does something really good, that I hadn't expected her to do, then I tell her, but equally when she has done something I wasn't happy with, I have also told her and we have moved on. I was nervous about giving her a first appraisal but actually she was really pleased about the 99% of great things that she does that I had noticed, and as to the 1%, I just phrased that as things I thought she needed to think about doing differently, so she took it well.

I find the discussion about educated nannies really interesting. In the longer term education of DD will be a big priority but I didn't consider it as a significant factor in choosing a nanny. My nanny didn't do well at school but she is very experienced and that was more important to me as DD is my PFB and didn't want to leave her to just anyone! I know lots of very smart people who dont have an ounce of common sense

Nothing wrong with wanting things to be right first time, BoffinMum If they are paid to book the correct size of room - then they should do so in my view.

In office environments people don't always like the feedback they get from their line manager, so not that surprising that nannies may not like the feedback they get. Letting things fester however is not good for anyone in the long term. Better in my view to get the subject aired and maybe things will change, or maybe they won't. I've learnt that with age though... if I was in my 20's my reaction to negative feedback would be more like thinking it was a personal slight, someone being hyper fussy or picky.

At my DD's bilingual school in Paris there are several degree-educated nannies around, mostly Australian or British. While families clearly employ them for their excellent English, these nannies are literally a world apart in terms of the childcare they offer their charges from the run of the mill Paris nounou. They cost a lot more too - and generally get treated better by their employers, but then, the nannies also get to pick and choose who they work for! There obviously is a market for highly educated nannies out there, and both parties know the stakes are higher.

nannynick - I think lots of nanny employers struggle to give feedback even when things aren't going right. Not necessarily big things, but the small things. There are often threads from employers on here who are quietly seething or feel their nanny is taking advantage, but haven't actually pointed out to the nanny the thing that is annoying them. In an office if you were using the photocopier incorrectly or putting mail in the wrong place, your boss would have no problem pointing it out. But in the home, little things might be what food is eaten or who unloads the dishwasher, and it seems more personal - some employers are unable to be upfront about things that they don't like.

"I sometimes feel there's a certain kind of inverse snobbery (as an educated nanny) that academic people are too overqualified to look after children. I often get asked why I want to do it when I have a degree as if there's some perception that people with degrees should be doing 'better' things."

I get that alot, or at least I get questioned about my career choice alot as I have a Law degree and some parents have commented along the lines of "what a waste" that I am a Nanny! I don't see it that way at all. I am doing something I love, and am good at, and my education is merely one facet of me as a person. I have found as I get older though that having the Law degree has got me higher caliber jobs as the parents do seem to be seeking out degree qualified nannies. But, with these higher caliber jobs, comes a tougher overall job: longer hours, greater responsibility, extensive travel and higher expectations. So it's a trade off really.

As for pay I get in the region of 30k a year, but for the hours etc I do I am on the lower end of the market rate. I could ask for more but I am happy with what I get, and my perks make up for any shortfall. Sometimes it's more about just being happy than getting the biggest paycheck. I was offered one job for 1000/week. I turned it down as I would have had NO life.

Nannies don't routinely get yearly appraisals though, which would be a good thing for feedback.

Re the salary I used to have a very well paid nanny job and certainly earned more there than in a graduate job. There are quite a few highly paid nannies on MN but the flipside is you oftn work damn hard for it. 24/5, 12 hour days, extensive travel - not your average jobs but usually above £30k. Very experienced nannies can easily top £30k working full time but like any job you don't start that way. Still for someone who may have failed half their GCSEs and got a lucky break as a mothers help at 16 that's not bad going!