Any help to prevent an argument with my childminder?

any nurseries around? Now that your dd is older there will be benefits to using a nursery that perhaps there weren't when she was younger?

I would give notice.

There is always alternatives.

Kids don't melt from having a change in childcare. I would go so far as to say it can be good for them to get used to having other people looking after them.

What LisaD says x 100

Sounds very unprofessional and the "tears" whats all that about I certainly would question whether to continue using this CM. I'm a CM and if I'm sick or on hols I don't get paid, thats my choice to work this way it's part and parcel of being s/employed if I can't afford time off I don't take it, or I organise my finances so that I can have hols.

And if I'm sick I most certainly would not be going out for an evening. I agree she isn't entitled to more than 5wks paid hols as per her contract. I also think that you need to find alternative care because either way one of you isn't gonna be happy with the end result.

I'm a CM and think your's is taking the p!

She has had her holiday for the year, unfortuantley she was ill, that's her problem (and yours but you've already dealt with yours by using and paying for alternative childcare) and there's no way you should pay her for her sick days.

IF and it's a big IF imo she wanted to book it as holiday (even if she had some left) surely this should be done in writing and in advance? (my contract states 4 weeks notice for holidays and I don't even get paid for mine!), I just don't see how your CM can think she's owed for that time off?

She is upset as you have previously paid her for sick days in the past and this is what she has now come to expect. She doesn't like the sudden change! If you don't stand your ground, you will have this problem to deal with again. Are you really prepared to pay her sick pay over the next 18 months - especially considering how unprofessionally she has behaved recently?

we were really stuck just before Christmas when our CM gave notice - have you tried putting an ad on gumtree, its hardly used up here at all but we got 5 replies one of which was brilliant and she's starting next week

there are always alternatives

She sounds pretty unprofessional to be honest - I don't envy you having to deal with it. It sounds like she's expecting the perks of employment (such as sick pay) whilst being self employed. I think all you can do is be calm and firm and ignore any further tears etc. However I'd want to start looking hard for alternative childcare- there may be some alternatives

She sounds pretty unprofessional to be honest - I don't envy you having to deal with it. It sounds like she's expecting the perks of employment (such as sick pay) whilst being self employed. I think all you can do is be calm and firm and ignore any further tears etc. However I'd want to start looking hard for alternative childcare- there may be some alternatives

Stick to your guns - she is taking the piss

god this is all so complicated and 5 weeks annual leave.. paid.. bloody hell.. where do you all live.. please can I work there.

I think the simpler contract the better for all, as everyone understands where they are.

I dont get paid for any sickness leave,as a cm I am self employed!!! I dont get paid for my annual leave either.. (but thats just the way I work) every cm is different..

however its all in the contract that was presumably signed by the poster and the cm so there can be no quibble, only one person is right and the other has to pay up(or pay back) and grin and bear, or issue written notice..

I think payment on 1st of Jan for services rendered over the course of Jan is payment one month in advance. Payment on Dec. first is two months.

I think this is the story:

CM has used all of her holiday. She was sick and unable to work. She gave the money back because she was unable to work and as per contract not entitled to pay. She then changed her story and said she was on hol so she could get half pay and has gone back to Mum asking for this half pay (after she gave it back!)

I would be friendly but firm. If CM gets stroppy, I would encourae her to serve me notice, which I would only accept in writing.

Yes, think we it clarified as to if payment a month in advance means payment an entire month in advance (so payment 1st December for childcare starting 1st Jan) or if it's payment at being of month.

May of course make no difference but it may help to show this sort of thing on a spreadsheet so that the CM can see that they have been paid all the dues fees as per the agreed contract.

I see what you mean. I would have thought payment a month in advance means you pay at the beginning of the month for that whold month so the January payment should have just been paid

Very confusing right enough.

That 3 weeks is causing me confusion. I feel that needs to be clarified... if the contract is such that sick leave is unpaid, then the CM giving the money back is fine. However the payment for Janaury would have been due in full beginning of December and payment for February is now due as it's beginning of January.

So, was the January fee paid in full in December? Was the 3 weeks paid back from that payment? Was the February fee paid in full beginning of January?

See I'm getting confused... need it clarified if all the monthly payments have been made.
If all the monthly payments have been made as per the agreed schedule and the 3 weeks of sickness paid back, then it just leaves the amount of holiday taken over the past year to be discussed.

Oh fgs, all the 'entitled' and 'entitlements' in my post! I hope it makes sense

Why does the OP owe the CM for 3 weeks Nannynick? She was unavailable for work for those 3 weeks and her contract states she doesn't get paid for sick leave. I don't really understand why the op wasn't entitled to her money back for those 3 weeks. I'm probably missing something really obvious of course

The CM shouldn't be entitled for holiday pay over Christmas if she has already had her holiday entitlement over the course of the year. I can't see this ending well though if she is trying to guilt trip you into paying because 'all the other mums' have.

Based on the holiday year start date, list all the times you feel your CM has been on holiday. Then list any additional time they have been unavailable due to sickness.

Something like this spreadsheet

"I had to ask her to pay me the money back for the initial three weeks as I usually pay her a month in advance and I could not afford to pay an emergency cover after I had already paid her."
So did she give you 3 weeks money back? This complicates things I feel as you in effect owe her for 3 weeks.

SLeighgirl's letter suggestion is good. But, I fear your relationship has already broken down since she is obviously trying to pull a fast one on you. And you might find 18 months is a VERY long time with a childminder you can't trust.

Also, I would verify that comment about all the parents having paid with the other parents. Have they really? Did she lie to them too?

Does the contract state 5 weeks or 5x7 days ie 35 days.......

Could it be that other people have different start dates for contracts so they do have to pay her because she has not taken 5 weeks in their contractual year?

If Christmas was scheduled as holiday, as part of the 5 weeks, then it should be paid at half pay as per contract.

If it was over and above the 5 weeks, then (with the exception, presumably, of Public Holidays) what would she have done if she had not been off sick?

As for what to do, I would take the line of "I am confused here - could you document for me the 5 weeks you had in the last contractual year, and what you have booked for the coming year - because according to my records we had already paid 5 weeks holiday at half pay....."

It must have been tough for her to have no income running up to Christmas, but if that is how her contract is written, then it is not your problem.

Is it worth putting something in writing?

Dear x

My understanding is that our contractual year runs from the first day back at school in January ie from the 4th of Jan 2009 to 3rd Jan 2010.

My understanding from our contract is that you will take 5 paid weeks holiday per contractual year.

According to my calculations you took
a
b
c
d
e
in paid holidays which is 5 weeks so any additional holidays taken would be unpaid as per the contract.

If I have misunderstood either the contract or the paid holiday you have taken in the last year please clarify it urgently so we can resolve the December invoice.

Kind regards

If her allowance is 5 weeks including Christmas then she doesn't have a leg to stand on. Cleary state what the contract says and the fact she's already had it all - have a list of when it was taken if she's really disorganised then she can check it later. Do you also have any proof of her saying she was "unavailable" rather than on holiday or specifically off sick or was it just a verbal thing? She can't retrospectively declare holidays - my CM contract says CM has to give 2 weeks notice for example in order to be paid.

I would keep referring back to the contract here to keep things as professional as possible and stop this decending into a row. No one can argue with the contract. Well, they can, but they wont get very far!

ok, in which case, i would politely state that you presumed this xmas holiday would be unpaid as her contract states 5 weeks, that she has already taken. I send out invoices every month with holidays stated on, to avoid issues like this, hope you get it sorted.

sorry, my point was that the only thing the cm was not fulfilling contract wise MAY have been too many holidays (OP yet to confirm) whereas OP was definately not fulfilling her contract as she hasnt paid for CM holidays as agreed when contract was signed. I am sure the CM did not mean to have an accident and then be unavailable for work, unfortunately its smething that as a parent sending a child to a cm you have to understand, if the cm isnt available then you have to find other care, its why more than one type of childcare exists. She would have already been paying for her xmas holidays, so why should she not pay because she was ill? she wouldnt have been available anyway.