Advice re wage for AuPair/Mother's Help/Nanny

should be frakkinaroundthechristmastree but you can't see it all!

Hope you've found all this helpful and good luck finding someone.

£175 net is roughly £200 gross (works out to 174.99) and will cost £11.53 in employers NI.

Plenty of people keep a couple of sessions at nursery as well as having a nanny. Could you get them sessions at different times so they each have some one-to-one with the nanny if you desperately want to keep them there? Or have nursery two days and compress your working hours to fit in drop off/pick up and a 3 day nanny?

A live out nanny is likely to be around £380-675 gross/week (£299.19-502.74 net) with £34.57-72.33 of employers NI.

Live in £310-525 gross giving £250.89-399.24 net with £25.61-53.13 of employers NI.

All done with the tax calculator I linked to earlier based on a 5 day week, normal tax code, no student loan. You don't say where you are so it may be cheaper but unlikely to be more expensive unless you want supernanny - I've gone for rates local to me (south-east).

The most economic thing I can think of is you get her to live in and pay her say £175 net (pay her the gross equivalent, whatever that is). She lives with you (all 7 days). She works for you 3 days. She gets another job for two days (at live-out rates). You get her tax allowance if you can swing it.

But, wouldn't you be better off working 5 days and having a live in nanny for five days so that you are her sole employer?

This is pretty much off the top of my head. I haven't really checked the numbers thoroughly. But I'm sure someone will come correct me if I've way underestimated.

I think your most economical option is a full time live-in nanny (with only a couple of years of childcare and live-in experience) and keep all you work hours to pay for it. And drop the nursery to help pay for it.

A live-out nanny is the most expensive option.

That thing that I think will be a big turn off is the Saturday morning. Do you really need this?

a 3day nanny would cost more like £110 a day not £110 for 3 days

I completely disagree with your friend's comment on Eastern Europeans. I have had two Polish and one Estonian nanny. The first Polish one was probably better suited to being an au pair. She was my first and I can see now that my expectations were a tad ambitious. It didn't work. She was sent home (after resigning).

The Estonian was very hard working. She had some issues with understanding she worked for me. But, I think that had more to do with her age. But, she was very honest and very hardworking.

The other Polish nanny is my current nanny. She worked for us once before. Returned to Poland for her masters. And has now come back. She is hard working, dedicated, the kids love her and I love her. When I ask her to do something once... she does it.

If you are really worried about an au pair seducing your husband I think you are being silly. I think men who sleep with the au pair could just as easily sleep with the secretary and probably would if the au pair didn't appear before him. You could always get an ugly au pair (or an ugly husband) and then at least one of them won't be interested.

I am still waiting.

There was a thread about the seduction issue. The general consensus there was that people haven't had that problem, but then again if you ask for a photo and you take on a scantily clad AP in a provocative pose that's probably what you'll get.

Summary from Listen to Taxman for £110 a week. They would pay 1p of NI, and you would have 1p of employers NI. You may as well pay more if you can afford it and you're letting yourself in for the hassle of being an employer.

Here you can find rates and allowances for the 2 tax years which will concern you.

I would avoid making generalisations about particular nationalities. Over the last 13 years my mother has had au pairs to help out around the house and they've done bits of childcare for families from church. She gets through about 2 a year - typically a 9 month following the school year and a summer au pair, who gets paid more because she tends to do a full day or two of childcare for a few weeks. They've all be over 22 for the car insurance and usually are graduates or about to start their final year of university. She quite often boards 2 at a time to allow one to finish a course and another to start one and to give them a bit of a handover. Over that time she's had several fabulous Polish, Czech and Slovak girls, some great Scandanavians (fab childcare, not so hot on the cleaning though), two good French girls (good ironing), one good German, two dreadful Germans a dreadful Polish girl, a truly awful French girl, a Spanish boy and an Austrian boy over the summers who were good with children but needed to be taught how to clean and iron (but in their defence learned quickly). When I was still young enough to need an au pair we had a great Kiwi, a great Australian, a rubbish Australian, a great Czech girl and a rubbish Czech girl. So from someone else with lots of experience (both as a child being cared for and an adult observer who helps recruit them) it's down to individuals.

Eastern Europeans are easier from an employment perspective as the majority don't need visas.

you know what.

I think you're out of order

The point about accents isn't so much exposure to different ones it's shifting ones IYSWIM? An au pair may come with a very thick accent which improves and it's supposedly difficult for young children to 'fix' on that person's voice and model how they should be saying a particular word if they're hearing one person say it 5 different ways. 5 people saying it 5 different ways doesn't seem to have any impact at all - the children choose one way and stick to it. So someone who has a consistent accent, even if it's quite noticeable to other people, doesn't necessarily pose a problem, unless it's super thick and you start hearing children asking 'vare my teedy bear?'!

Basic capability is definitely something to bear in mind when assessing a person's level of English and accent and grammar form a part of that.

still think you need a 3 day part time nanny (ap/mothers help are not meant to have sole charge of young ones) and then other help 2 other days

I think you are asking way too much, even with your revisions.

I have two children, one under two years old. I am very careful not to expect much in terms of the toddler from our lovely aupair - that's why the toddler goes to nursery while I work.

I do all pick-ups and drop-offs.

I pay £70 a week for 25 ish hours a week, plus a mobile phone, a bike, gym membership and have offered to fund a part-time university course and STILL I may not be able to persuade my lovely aupair to stay a year. All her friends are going home after aupairing for less than 6 months, saying British families expect too much.

Have a rethink. You might see ads with different perks and hours and think you'll attract dozens of applicants - but do they get someone trustworthy who actually stays???? The best aupairs are in heavy demand. The first one I had I was one of twelve families who wanted her, the second aupair I actually poached from another family who were asking too much of her.

I don't think a non-native speaker harms the language development. We have had Estonian, Polish, and Canadian nannies. In fact the only adult in my house with a British accent is DH. I am American and speak with Norther midwest American accent. However, my children both speak with West London accents. So all these different accent have not impaired their speech any. And, furthermore, it is very educational for children to listen to a variety of accents and languages even if they do not learn to speak them. It help build connections in their braind that will later aid learning a language.

Although I do remember being mildly bothered when my toddler started to say "What it is" instead of "what is it?"

Oh, and another point is that foreigners who learn to speak English from studying it in a classroom often have better grammar than those who grew up speaking the language in Britain.

I may have misunderstood but your MIL was speaking her native language to your DD1? Raising a child bilingually with 2 native speakers is very different to having a young child cared for by someone speaking a non-native tongue, in most cases not terribly well. There are implications for the acquisition of accents and deep grammar which is why it's not advisable for children to be cared for by people with an imperfect command of the language used for care. If you were looking for a nanny of a different nationality to speak their language to your DDs that would be a different matter and as long as their level of English is good enough to communicate in an emergency then it has no implications for your DDs linguistic development and can be very beneficial but that's not how your posts are coming across. As I said, I may have misunderstood.

Would the 2 free days be consecutive? I noticed you said Sunday and one more week day which indicates to me that they wouldn't be consecutive? Are there language courses available where you are on Mondays and Wednesdays that the au pair could reasonably attend? Would you be prepared to pay for a language course which might make your position more attractive (and isn't a benefit in kind if you make English language a job requirement because it's work-related training)?

I honestly don't know many 24 year olds who would do your job for 2 years for that money. When I worked in Paris there were people doing similar, probably fewer hours, for more and they all said they would stick out the year but no longer and in most cases a 'year' was only 9 months - Sept-June. You may get very lucky but IME and the experience of most on here migrant childcare workers don't stay that long. People who want to improve their English often want it for a reason and want to move onwards and upwards with their lives.

Some posts of gumtree and great au pair are, quite frankly ridiculous. To be completely honest I felt that your first post was, but now it's looking more sensible with the time off from Saturday lunch to Monday morning and another free day during the week.

Extras only count for tax if they're not required for work AKAIK. So you can provide a mobile phone because they legitimately needs it during working hours. Gym membership would be taxable unless it's needed to take children to activities at the gym.

Info here on what benefits are taxable but this seems to date from 2006-2007 so worth asking for up-to-date info.

Do you really need weekend help?

Hi
I think you'll find that the extras do count - benefits in kind. They all have a taxable monetary value.

I think you are asking too much of an au pair unless she has child care qualifications and experience. The children are still v young. You are wanting three days of sole charge care plus probably four hours Mon/ Wed and also Sat morning. I think a more reasonable au pair salary would be about 150 pounds/ week given the age of the children, the hours and the weekend work that you require. Also, as others have said, au pairs usually have two free days per week which you are not giving her.

For not too much more than £90 plus nursery fees a week you could get a very newly qualified live in 5 day nanny, or an unqualified nanny with a bit of experience. You would have the hassle of being an employer. I agree with Blondes that a 3 day nanny and help on weekends/drop-off picks (possibly an au pair) combination may suit you better.

Why do you need the weekend help? If you want someone working those days then you do end up paying a premium. People will want 48 hours off or at the very least Saturday afternoon through to Monday morning, but I've interviewed/been offered jobs in the past which were 2 mid-week days, or Fri/Sat or Sun/Mon as days off and it wasn't a factor in my not taking those jobs as I knew the terms before I interviewed and wouldn't have agreed to the interview otherwise.

Most EU citizens can get their own police check from the country they currently live in, otehrwise you will need to go through an agency or registered body to get a British CRB. You are right that pay in Europe is quite often less than in the UK.

From what you've said I feel you need to review your childcare arrangements and not try to have one person doing all of the above.

Oh and I wasn't suggesting that £110 is a nanny salary. That was a very poorly worded post. Sorry.