Trouble with the CM

Honestly,* it is not as if I am doing this before he is ready! With my DS1 he was completely dry day and night within 1 week of coming out of nappies. I know he is a bit of a flukey case, but I really believe in waiting until they are totally ready as it is much less messy. I have done this to make it easier for me, DS and the CM.

Not being funny, but if you are so defensive towards others and confident about what you are doing then you probably have your answer and dont need to keep defending yourself. There is a rather massive fear of this becoming more of an issue than it is because you have talked it to death on mumsnet, I think you need to speak to her again, be firm in your convictions but also try and let her explain herself and her reasons. You may have caught her on the hop and she may just have been worried. especially if she ahs a young one herself she may be daunted by the prospect of dealing with potty training and looking afer her young one at the same time. No doubt once she gets into it she'll be fine and the nyou'll wonder what you made all the fuss about...

dixia Fri 20-Nov-09 17:12:01
Thanks for the support, Maxybrown. I do feel slightly victimised by some of the comments here. Danthe4th - I really couldn't care less about her carpets and furniture! If she is so precious about them, then maybe she should find another job to do. She has chosen to be a child minder, chosen to invite children into her house and chosen to LOOK AFTER THEM. I think that what she is suggesting will be a detriment to his development and could well result in him going backwards. "Naughty boy, you have had another accident, I'm going to put a nappy on you like a baby". As I am not there, how can I know what she is saying to him? All I can judge her on is what she says to me and I am uncomfortable about what she has said.

so you would be happy to send your child to a childminders house that had pee stains all over the floor and smelled I THINK NOT. what if you had a baby and your baby got ignored as the childminder was constantly taking child to toilet and cleaning pee of the floor would you still be happy I THINK NOT. I im so shocked at the cheek about you saying you dont care about her carpet it is her house she chooses to let you and your childminder into. its not like a nursery who would really accept any1 childminders have to like and trust whoever they let into there house and they need to keep on with them.

water,but i do have cm friends who think its the parents job!!!so we are all different
Add message | Report | Contact poster By pinkdelight Fri 20-Nov-09 10:43:26
Wow, I'm really surprised by some of the replies here. If a mindee is full-time then how can it be "mum's job" so bluntly? Do mums have to take time off work to do it? My ds is full-time at a CM who has been a star working with us to potty train him. It has taken much longer than two weeks, so perhaps you'd say he wasn't ready, but we both believed he was and she's been brilliantly persistent and patient. I've never got the impression that it wasn't her job - I'd have thought it most definitely was. Not solely, but for the times when he is in her care, of course. Don't know what I'd have done if she'd refused - I can't take time off and still pay her, and though we did start during her annual hol, he was still having plenty of 'accidents' by the time he went back to her, and still does have a few. Anyhow, not criticising, it's your rules of course. I just didn't realise my CM wasn't typical. If it was a nanny, would your response be different?

childminders can help with toilet training but ovbiously its the parents child so i cant imagine why parents wouldnt want to start it ano you get lazy parents that wants the childminder to do all the wrk so they dont have to then the child ends up in nappies at the weekend i had a parent like that child would come back on monday with a nappy i would take it off he would be fine all day and the rest of the week and then come bk monday with a nanpy its just lazyness with some parents.
alot of parents do it during a holiday. thats what i did when i knew i had no school runs to do, no toddler groups to go to and could actually spend the day in the house

nannys are different they are in childs own house looking after only that child and maybe brothers/sister so is doing exactly what the mother would be doing.

FWIW I don't get paid for holidays either.

But surely you must take some time off in the course of a year? I was only saying that I think taking time off to get their child started on their potty training is a good use of parent's time/leave. "Just to potty train" seems to me to be undervaluing the importance of this vital step in a child's development. If the child is really ready and "gets it" really quickly, there should be plenty of time in the days/week/fortnight for other quality time activities!

I don't know where the two weeks off work came from though - not my suggestion. It takes as long as it takes and sometimes if it doesn't work out first time it has to be put on hold and tried again later. Hope you are lucky again.

"I really couldn't care less about her carpets and furniture!" I would be appalled if the parents I mind for felt that way about my home"

I was shocked by that attitude too. There are a lot of posts on this forum from mothers who apparently regard their childminders, nannies and au pairs with a variety of negative attitudes - but I think this stands out even amongst these.

This is not only the lady's family home, but the environment where you choose to have your child spend his time. I imagine if you thought she was trying to potty train her child prematurely you would be quick to complain about the impact on your child, both the hygeine aspect and the amount of her time and attention it would require. Would you expect your friends and relatives to put up with your child making messes all over their place or would you have some consideration for their homes and keep him in nappies or training pants until he is at least generally reliable in that respect? I don't think you can reasonably expect your childminder's family to put up with wet furniture and carpets - don't forget that they can take hours or days to dry - and as you rightly say you are only paying for a few hours of her time a week.

As for what a nanny would do, I think that is a rather different situation. If you chose to instruct your nanny to let your own children mess up your own home, then I think that's up to you. Nobody else's children are affected and nobody else's home gets trashed.

As for "I can't take time off and still pay her" you can use some of your holiday to get your chid's potty training off to a good start. That's what most parents do. That's what I did and I am a childminder.

I agree with TP 100%!!!

Prisoner, I understand what you mean, completely, and I suspect she didn't mean it this way (am I right) but was a little huffy because I think she felt like the CM was saying (almost) that she couldn't care less about her son and his training as she has furniture etc to think of. of course, it is so difficult when everything is in type and no tone as it were!!

I don't post much any more, but still read through many of the threads here. If I was going to post, I would have said that I supply any equipment I need for my business (including potty, protective covers for seats etc). As an experienced minder, I work with parents and agree how to do the potty training.

Dixia - I agreed with some of the things you said, and I also agree with some of the things that CMs have said.

However, I am really cross that you have so little regard for your childminder's house!!
I take issue with the comment "I really couldn't care less about her carpets and furniture!" I would be appalled if the parents I mind for felt that way about my home.

oh and WTG DS!

I'm sorry you feel victimised that people disagree with you but seeing as the majority are saying the same thing, could it possibly be that yabu?

To jump from what you said yesterday to saying she will verbally punish/abuse your child is very sensationalistic

It sounds as if you don't rate your CM much at all and even distrust her so I think maybe you would be better off in this instance to find alternative childcare.

Hoorah for your Ds well done that lad! I am with you on how you feel about CM.

replied on other thread as well but most cm/nannies are happy to CONTINUE the pt, but parents need to start it off, as Op said she would

I'm really surprised at some of the opinions expressed too! I never for one minute thought the OP came across as wanting the CM to "do the job for her". She stated she thought it was fair enough about the childminder saying do it at home over weekend first (fair enough) but to have to provide a potty??? I could understand that if the Child had a big issue with using another potty but....sheesh. I also see it as a punishment to the LO, if he has 2 accidents that's it?? It just doesn't seem very helpful to me

Yes, maybe she is unsure of how to do it etc, but surely she can say "oh right we'll have to help each other with this one as I've never done it before!! But if you can be as prepared as possible and provide me with as much as you can that would be great" I don't see how she can say she wants him in pull ups if that is not what you want to use. I would never use them, you may as well stick to nappies.

dixia i think it depends on the cm as i am quite happy to potty train first,i have numurous yrs of experience.i have one mindee who arrives in a nappy and goes home in a nappy but during day he is potty trained he is now 2.9yrs i did this over thye summer.he took to it like a duck to water,but i do have cm friends who think its the parents job!!!so we are all different

Wow, I'm really surprised by some of the replies here. If a mindee is full-time then how can it be "mum's job" so bluntly? Do mums have to take time off work to do it? My ds is full-time at a CM who has been a star working with us to potty train him. It has taken much longer than two weeks, so perhaps you'd say he wasn't ready, but we both believed he was and she's been brilliantly persistent and patient. I've never got the impression that it wasn't her job - I'd have thought it most definitely was. Not solely, but for the times when he is in her care, of course. Don't know what I'd have done if she'd refused - I can't take time off and still pay her, and though we did start during her annual hol, he was still having plenty of 'accidents' by the time he went back to her, and still does have a few. Anyhow, not criticising, it's your rules of course. I just didn't realise my CM wasn't typical. If it was a nanny, would your response be different?

Reading through again, I really think you are being unreasonable, this is her home, carpets, floor etc. Easy for the nursery to mop up and they don't really care what goes on the floor.
Also in the afternoon he is more likely to have accidents as he will be tired etc.
Have a good go yourself over the weekend and see how you get on, get him reliable at nursery, before trying to get him reliable at the childminders, and provide the nappy pants rather than pullups, theyre cheaper and not so tight.

I'm a childminder and am happy to work with parents, but would not be happy to toilet train a child from scratch.Thats mums job.
I have 3 toddlers all due to start toilet training in my setting. Mum of one of them is going to try over xmas, that will be 2 weeks at home so hopefully I can then carry on, the other isn't ready so will be tried at home at easter, and the other some other time.
I need warning to be prepared for the accidents, I think you presumed the cm was going to toilet train your child, definately not her job, but it is her job to support you and the child when the child has shown that they are reliable enough to stay dry at least for a couple of hours.

I'd agree with what most people have said... it's fair to take a child who is a few days into potty training and doing well to a CM, but not a child who is still wetting their pants several times a day. This is a job for parents!

OTOH my mum used to be a CM, and I remember her having 5 1&2 year olds potty training at the same time (she had different children on different days), and she was happy to take them from day 1 potty training, but my sister (one of the littlies) was her DD3, so she'd done it all before, and the group effort worked well for everyone!

I'd say you should provide Pampers mats or similar if he is still having accidents as they're not cheap to buy, and wet car seats or pushchairs are a big PITA (no pun intended )

In answer to your question I think that you are being unreasonable not her.
As you said :

"i think he might have lots of accidents in the first few days "

This is correct and therefore the first few days should be done at home by yourself , as the other CMs on here have said they carry on the work that the parent has started not do it for them.
Of course you should provide the potty etc for this , it is personal to your child.

I am not sure why you are being negative about her suggesting a meeting as regards handling this very important stage in your child's development ? Seems very odd on your part.

TBH it sounds to me as if you have wanted to hand the whole matter over to the nursery and CM and opt out .

It does sound as though she doesn't have the experience so wants to talk to you so that she can follow your routine.
I don't put them in nappies if they're out of them at home, but will use pullups because they are easy to pull up and down (obviously) for frequent trips to the potty, while safeguarding my floors and furniture, car seat and pushchair. I haven't had a problem with confusion and have helped to potty train lots of children.

I never start from scratch either, it's the parent's job, not mine.
I will do everything to help support the child's progress after they have been started off at home.
I don't agree with training pants either apart from perhaps at naptimes (does your child nap still?)
Carseat covers - don't see the problem with this - get some pampers mats or some piddle pads for the CM.
Potty - her own child is only 2yo and she may not have a potty yet plus some people prefer to use their own - again I don't see the problem there.
I would say that any child having more than 2-3 accidents a day is not quite ready yet and if you really really don't want a nappy put back on then make sure there are double the amount of spare clothes you think your dc will need.
I think calling a meeting to discuss the situation was the right thing for your CM to do so again can't see the problem with that?

That explains it then.
If her own son is only just 2yo and she has only started CMing recently then you probably sent her into a panic by suggesting that you will bring your DS to her the next day with no nappy and expect her to do the first day of potty training when she has no experience of it at all.
I think her suggestion that you start on a Friday and have 3 days with him yourself to start with is a good one.
After those three days I'd have a hand over (if she collects him from pre school then I'd phone her Sunday maybe for a chat) and just tell her that you appreciate she hasnt dealt with it before, but DS has got on X well over the last 3 days and please can she pick him up from pre school and carry on as you have been. Explain that nappy for trips is fine, but not at any other time. Ask her to ask him to sit on potty every 20 mins (or however long you have settled on) and also tell her how you are dealing with accidents.. ie. what to tell to DS when he has an accident etc. Give her loads of spare pants and trousers and a big bag for the wet ones to go in!
Also maybe reassure her that the first few days are a bit messy but they usually 'get it' within a week or two when they are ready, so it really is only a short term thing.