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Original poster

if you are a nanny, would you accept less pay if there was lots of time off?

31 replies

citybranch · 19/10/2009 14:30

I think a live out nanny would work really well for our family when I go back in the spring, but looking at what a typical nanny charges here (Essex) it seems pretty unaffordable.

DH and I are both shiftworkers and we plan to do opposing shifts. We are both on a rolling roster and the shift starts and finishes vary wildly, plus we do some weekends and then get days off in the week.
Fulltime childcare seems to be the best option (had p/t childcare after returning to work after DS - it did not work as there was no time for sleep!)

We get a lot of annual leave which we sometimes take at different times, where we wouldn't need a nanny, so could offer this as a perk.

This is kind of what I'm thinking:
Agreed hours 9-6, mon-fri but one weekend required per month (plenty of notice given of which weekend). When the weekend is worked, 2 days off will be in the week.

In addition, at least one half day (or even full day) off in the week, paid. This would fall on our day off midweek, would probably be able to inform which day it would be a week in advance.

12 weeks paid holiday, this would fall on our annual leave dates and be in blocks of one or two weeks. Would be able to inform of dates for the year ahead well in advance. If the nanny needed a particular week or two off we would hopefully be able to arrange that if plenty of notice was given.

Duties would be to look after a 3year old boy and 8 month old girl. Both children in the morning and then drop the 3 year old at nursery at 1pm every day, and then just mind the baby. Nursery, town centre, underground train station, leisure centre, park and surestart centre are all walking distance so driving licence is not necessary.

BUT my budget for the Nanny is only £250 per week (perhaps could stretch to a tiny bit more) and I need to do the tax/N.I. out of that.
Would someone go for this or am I dreaming?
Would the time off be enough of a perk? Any advice/opinions/ideas welcome!

P.S. My employers cannot give me fixed days off because of the roster, so getting a straightforward part-time nanny not an option .

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Original poster
citybranch · 22/10/2009 20:50

I think she wants £70 from just our family which does sound like she is a very expensive nanny! I don't think I'll be pursuing this.... from what you have said it all sounds a bit dodgy. I think she might be playing dumb to see if i fall for it. Thank you very much for your in depth responses, you have prob saved me from a whole lot of hassle....

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annh · 21/10/2009 23:22

To clarify, is she asking for 70 pounds a day net as a total amount from both you and the other family - in which case, maybe it will be affordable for you? If she wants 70 pounds from you plus whatever she is getting from the other family (by my rough calculations they are paying her about 50 pounds a day gross) then she would be a very expensive nanny.

I would start by asking her if she is an employee of the other family, if yes, do they pay her tax on her behalf, if no, what is her employment status and if she says she is self-employed, tell her that you will need to see something from IR confirming that, as you could be fined in any IR investigation down the line. My gut feel based on the fact that the other family don't seem to be paying her tax and that she herself seems clueless about the difference between gross/net is that she is either not paying tax at all or under-declaring.

If you feel you are satisfied with her employment status, you also need to look into the practicalities of the nanny-share arrangement. On the days when the other child(ren) do not have after school activities, whose house will the children be in? Yours or the other families? If the other families, will your dd be eating there? Who will be providing the food, high chair etc? As their children are older, is their house babyproof? Are they even going to be happy with this type of arrangement? I know I wouldn't be. Most nanny shares seem to work because the families know each other, share similar parenting values, agree on how they wish the nanny to care for the children etc. Having to possibly force yourself into an alliance with an unknown family to make this share work could be opening up a whole new can of worms.

Original poster
citybranch · 21/10/2009 22:48

Thanks for advice...I felt a bit unsure about it, I expected that someone with 8 yrs experience would know a bit more about the tax implications of their job etc. Also, she is above my budget, but gave the implication that she could waive the price a bit.
What kind of questions could I ask to find out exactly what the set up is with current family, re: tax? Thanks again for all your help, would be lost without this advice!

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nannynick · 21/10/2009 21:51

agree with annh, be very careful. The nannies tax free allowance may not get split between you and the other family... it may all be allocated to you, as I think you would be paying for more hours (thus likely to be paying more money overall). Though not sure that fits with her earning £1200 gross in other job... to me it seems as though she may be working say 3 hours a day for the other family... is that right? Think I'm getting confused.
Vital that you agree a Gross salary, as the tax situation could change mid-employment. If days are the same, hours the same, the general picture of looking at the job is that you are the employer the nanny is the employee... then operate PAYE. £70 a day take home for the nanny seems to me to be higher than your budget.

annh · 21/10/2009 20:46

Be careful! If she is asking you for 70 pounds net and she has already used up her tax allowance with the other family, then you will end up paying a LOT of tax in order to get to her net figure. Ideally, in a nanny share, the nanny's tax free allowance should be split between the families. Yes, if she is working regular days for the other family, she is their employee (as she would be yours) and you are responsible for sorting her tax out. Are the other family not doing this? If not, I'm not sure how she is paying tax, although she must have declared herself self-employed and be arranging it herself? If she has agreed with the other family that she doesn't get a petrol allowance, then that's fine although unusual if she is doing a lot of mileage for them. Is she expecting petrol allowance from you? Again, you need to be careful that you don't end up paying for the other family's mileage. Whose are the after-school activities - yours or the other childrens?

IF you decide to take her on, I would definitely offer her a gross wage. You can use an online tax calculator to work out what 70 net would equate to gross (and remember that you need to pay Employer's NI on top). However, it is you the IR will come after and fine heavily if they decide that she is not self-employed so beware. Have also just realised that (assuming four days a week - again, have got a bit lost in your requirements) the net figure comes to 280 per week which is already above your budget, before you even think about the tax and NI.

In summary, I think what I am saying is keep looking!

Original poster
citybranch · 21/10/2009 20:13

yes i did email, she would look after my DD & DS, drop him at nursery at 1pm, then take DD to other family school pick up and 2 after school activities per week. So it would be a nanny share. She's asking about £70 a day (4 days) so it is a bit more than I can really afford...
I asked if that was net and she said she wasn't sure of before/after tax, but around £70 was what she'd like to take home. She said she gets £1200 gross from the other family but has to pay a lot of tax. Then she asked if I would sort the tax or if she should?

I thought that we always sorted a nanny's tax, it sounds a little vague? She also said she doesn't get any petrol allowance so I'm thinking they have a very informal arrangement.

Any thoughts? I know nothing of this subject!
For the other family she does school pick up nand activities until 6pm, then full time for them in the school holidays.

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Blondeshavemorefun · 20/10/2009 15:27

citybranch - did you email?get a reply?

and yes if the nanny doesnt have both of your children together then isnt a nanny share but 2 nanny jobs as nick said

juneybean · 19/10/2009 23:36

I get a higher wage because I get lots of time off. But that's something agreed between me and my bosses.

nannynick · 19/10/2009 19:19

Only a share if they care for your children and their current child at the same time. If there is no time at which nanny will care for all children at the same time, then it is two employments. That's my understanding of it.

Original poster
citybranch · 19/10/2009 19:09

Just popped onto my local netmums childcare... there's a nanny in the next town, 10 mins drive. Her current charge has started school and the current family want to keep her for school pick up, so she's looking for something to fit in with that family.
This is a nanny share isn't it? I'm going to email once DCs are in bed and put the idea to her.

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PixiNanny · 19/10/2009 19:06

Blondes: O_O I couldn't have done that at 18, I was mature, but not mature enough Right now I'm after any job in Clacton, however my bosses have pushed my leaving date back as the replacement they had lined up got another job. You'd think that by now, having had nannies and au pairs for the entirety of their children's lives, that they'd understand the concept of having two or three lined up!

xoxcherylxox · 19/10/2009 17:33

what about a single mum with child she would get working tax credits to top her earnings up, plus some couple actually get working tax if they are both on low incomes

littlestarschildminding · 19/10/2009 17:21

I think you would prob find someone for that. AS long as you don't mind someone in their first nanny job....maybe an au pair who wants to move into nannying or someone finishing childcare at college. As a nanny with my own child when I went back into nannying I would probably have accepted this too.

Offer as many perks as you can and be as flexible as possible. Be friendly and kind. For lots of young nannies (especially those still living at home) money isn't ALWAYS the most important part of the job.

Good luck

BonsoirAnna · 19/10/2009 17:06

You normally have to pay more, not less, for flexible hours.

Blondeshavemorefun · 19/10/2009 17:04

theres nothing wrong with 20yr olds

we all used to be them once - at 18 i was sole charge 11hrs a day , 5 days a week to a 4mth and 5yr

they freely admited they choose me as couldnt afford an older nanny

if they hadnt given me that chnace i wouldnt be in the jobs i am in now and be able to ask for what salary i get

you can get sensible early 20's and dappy 30+'s

Original poster
citybranch · 19/10/2009 16:38

Shame Pixinanny - I'm only 26 myself so that age doesn't bother me - providing person was capable, responsible and the gut instinct said yes then I think I would be happy to give a chance to a 20 year old.

Well, it is a good sign anyway that someone else might go for it. And I still have a few months to look.

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PixiNanny · 19/10/2009 16:27

Sorry, would consider the four days, not 5.

Original poster
citybranch · 19/10/2009 16:27

I think I will give it a try, and perhaps find somebody inexperienced. Either that or up the childcare budget and perhaps revert to interest only mortgage until DS starts school.....

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PixiNanny · 19/10/2009 16:27

I'd consider it, but then I'm 20 and not yet qualified. If you were closer to me I'd probably defnately consider it just because I'm desperate for a temporary job tbh.

Original poster
citybranch · 19/10/2009 16:23

yes, we both take childcare vouchers and have banked up a fair bit too whilst I have been on Maternity leave.

My son's nursery cost about £250 pcm for every afternoon 1-6, this takes into account the govt funding for 3/4 year olds, and it is an excellent and very reasonable priced nursery. Really wouldn't want to take my son out of there as he thrives there, and it is really the only place he'll eat (another story). I think the nusery is good value.

Then I have approx £250 for the rest of the childcare. I am becoming resigned to the fact I will have to spend some more.
I earn more money, DH earns about £1250 4weekly and then pays £250 in CSA money so puts into our pot about £1k ..

I know financially it would make sense for him to give up work but after discussing it we feel that it is not an option. Once he had left it would be difficult to get back in, the job has some promotion prospects coming up around the time of the olympics and also DH would lose a very good pension. Then we would have to pay the CSA money from my wages as I would feel this is the right thing to do. Plus I'm just not sure that DH is a SAHD type of guy - not all men are I guess.

It is really difficult to come up with something that works financially and gives us some quality family life. I can't go back to opposing shifts with minimal childcare again because of the sleep deprivation, plus it was far too unsettling for DS. It is really difficult isn't it!

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Blondeshavemorefun · 19/10/2009 16:02

its great that you offer lots of time off but that doesnt pay bills

so in answer to your original question, no i wouldnt accept a job with less money, but more time off as couldnt afford to

the only way you could do this would be to have either a young person wanting to gain experience (and you have lovely ages to do this) or someone from a nursery wanting to get into nannying - tho both would have to be under 22 because of nmw

you are unlikly to find an older more experienced nanny for this - even those who want to bring their own child would want more than you can offer

have you included childcare vouchers into the total amount?

ie get an ofsted registered nanny

think it is £243 a month - if both of your employers did the scheme that would be nearly £500 towards the nanny's wages

this does still come out of your wages, but the tax is different

sure nick would be able to explain the savings you would make

Original poster
citybranch · 19/10/2009 15:53

Thanks again for replies. This is very helpful. Agree Nannynick that the chilminding rates will be very similar here.
Luckylou, I'm in Loughton.

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luckylou · 19/10/2009 15:30

Where in Essex are you, citybranch?

nannynick · 19/10/2009 15:28

Looking at it, National Minimum Wage is your initial problem given your budget and hours of work required.

If you were say to pay £12,000 a year... Employers NI on top pushes that up to £12,805 roughly... then there are misc other costs to take into account, nannies transport costs during the day, cost of activities, food/light/heat costs, payroll cost (if using a payroll company). If it is 45 hours a week, then it's 2340 hours a year, so if paying £12k then £5.13 an hour. It's below NMW, unless the person is under 22.
If dropping to 4 days a week, 36 hours a week, if paid at £12k per year gross then £6.40 an hour. Above NMW now.

It might appeal to a newly qualified person who is still living at home with their parents (as they may then have a very low rent) but not sure if it would suit anyone else, as the salary is low.

The 12 weeks paid holiday is a good perk to be offering, it helps compensate for the variable working days including weekend working.

Not sure what childminding rates are in your area but I suspect it could cost you about the same - and most childminder's won't do the children's laundry.

Original poster
citybranch · 19/10/2009 15:18

OldLady - your childminder arrangement does sound very good. The 2 CMs close to me are full just now, and I may look further afield but I don't drive yet!

I had a childminder for DS who was a bus ride away.
I would get in from a late shift at 2.30 am, get up with DS at about 7 am, be a zombie all morning, 20 min bus ride to CM to get there for 1pm, 20 min bus ride back and then try to sleep (it rarely happened) and then leave at 3.30 pm for 90min commute into work.
DH would get home from work at 4.30pm, collect DS at 6pm (he drives so not too bad) and then try and keep him up until 8.30 or 9pm so that he would sleep later in the morning, enabling me to sleep.
It waws hell! Never saw DH, was knackered all the time, work suffered, DS didn't know whether he was coming or going (he was 9months when this started) struggled to keep up with housework.

So a nanny who comes to us would really improve our quality of life but I'm not sure we do have the funds to stretch to this.

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