A mother's query about childminder holiday entitlement

gazoo what a horrible post - ''stay at home and bring your own child up''

PointyDog - Childminders are required to follow the EYFS (Early Years Foundation Stage) up until the the August of the childs 5th birthday.

so maybe you are happy not to be entitled to any notice of cm's holidays then???
people like you make me soo angry, want your cake and eat it. we devote long hours and your children become part of our family, all parents are happy with this, why is it expected for almost half the minimum wage????? would you work all day for that pitance??? simple if u dont wanna pay stay at home and bring your own child up or go to a nursery and pay MORE and probably get LESS.

sorry, looneytune - i don't think you were saying you are the only one. That comment was in response to jennipenni.
It's hideous how much paperwork you have to do. It shouldn't be that way. Most some of it is just completely unnecessary and the work of evil in an ofsted office by someone who has never looked after children before.

No, it's not factored into her rate. The rate is the rate is the rate. If she decides not to take holiday then she gets paid, if she takes 3wks off then that's 6k less in the bank.

Yes, she earns more than she would as an employee but a lot of that is to cover lack of job security/stability.

If a CM wants to put up her rates to factor in her own hols then fine but she cannot expect to be paid on top of the agreed hourly rate.

Also CM can be quite stressful if you rely on it to pay your mortgage and bills and have no DH or DP to help out.
Work can just dry up all of a sudden but the bills still come in.
My DH has a good job and being a CM means that I can be at home for my own children and at the same time be bringing money into the home.
Tried working out of the home but evening jobs are always linked to weekends and I ended up never seing my DH or putting my kids to bed at night

Oh yeah, I wasn't saying I was the only one . I'm doing it EVERY weekend atm and it's killing my family life. I've thought about quitting many times since all this extra work came in. What we need is:

1. A cleaner (at the end of each day as we HAVE to have it ready for the next day)
2. A cook (it's my worst part, trying to make a meal with 6 kiddies to deal with too - they like my attention at ALL times )
3. A secretary (or I'd settle for an office so at least I'm not staring at the piles every single day/night!!

Anyway, I've gone off on one. Being a parent and working full time is hard work eh!!

looneytune - I end up doing paperwork on weekends sometimes, too It shouldn't happen. Work/life balance is very difficult - especially when you work with children and want the best for them.

I don't think cms should have all of the paperwork that they do, though. I saw what my cm has to do and I was . I can see why so many people are put off cming because of that.

Yes, Tanith, I agree. It is long day. But not longer than a teacher/parent.
Same here... I teach young children during the day then collect my toddler asap, entertain him, run around with him...etc (later will be homework when he gets older), dinner, cleaning...etc., then after he's in bed, my own paperwork for my job (I sympathize with you on that). Marking, curriculum, planning, reports...etc something daily.
It's a long day.
I'm in no way saying "my job is more difficult or longer day than yours". Just pointing out that JenniPenni's statement that a cm's job is longer than a teacher's or "average parent". It's not.

Agree with Tanith although I try very hard to get paperwork done in the evenings but can't so I end up doing it over the weekend. My kids suffer as mummy can't play and I'm not even being paid to make it worthwhile!!

sorry, just hought about that post... I'm not saying "my day is harder/longer than anyone elses..." I'm simply saying that we all have very long days, especially when we have children. I realize that cms also wake early with their own dc then work a very long day and also have to balance family life...etc. I know cms work very, very hard and it is an incredibly demanding job, which I respect very much.

I just disagree with jp'sstatement that a cm's job is a longer day than teachers and "average parents"

Yes, BUT StarExpat - that's what a childminder also does after minding hours!

Take today. I've had 6 children here all day. The first arrived at 8am; the last left at 7pm.

After they're gone, I still have my own children to care for, to insist on homework and practice done and to get to bed.

Only then can I turn to the paperwork, planning and accounts that childminders also do. I tidy up and clean after the minded children - no cleaner like in a school or nursery. Some nights I have training - no nice INSET days for us.

Oh, and Archstanton: IT contractors will have negotiated a rate to cover their holidays. So will some childminders, of course, but one way or another, ALL are paid for their holidays.
Your friend will not lose 3k for her holidays: she will already have factored it into her rate, which is why IT contractors are paid so much more than employees.

Do you have children, jennipenni? Just curious because of some of the comments I've read. Sorry to be nosey.

Jennipenni Sorry, I know this is old... but...
"Parents should be made aware that as childminders who work very long days (longer than teachers and the average parent's, even including commuting time)"

ummmm, no.... I'm a teacher, "work" shorter hours than a cm.... but quite a long day, as I'm doing what you're doing.... looking after my child, entertaining, running around, cooking, cleaning...etc... after work, too... until bedtime. SO, I disagree.

Yes, but your friends are all other CMs. I meant a range of other self-employed people. As I said, my friend loses about 3k a week when she takes holidays. She needs to add this on to the cost of a holiday to work out the true cost. That's the thing with being self-employed.

If you ask for it and get paid it then that's fine but it is not the norm.

You are basically asking them to pay for your service when you are not willing to provide it. I once took a 1yr supply contract with a school. I told them I had booked a holiday the week before Oct half term. They didn't pay me as I didn't work nor did they pay me the following week because school was not open even though I was available. But that's the way it goes.

I was at a friends house this afternoon and three of the girls there were cm. As i said before we all get half pay for our holidays.
Not all employed people are restricted to when they take there holidays and i do my best to try and work in with the parents that employ me. i have never had a complaint about paying me half fee when iam on holiday during the 16 years i have done this job.

But that's the point, WW! Paid holiday is a benefit of the employed.

I am employed and am restricted as to when I can take my holidays. If I was self-employed this would not be an issue. There are pros and cons to both.

How much you charge is irrelevant. I think if you looked at a sample of self-employed people across the board you would likely find that you are the only one charging for your holiday. As I said earlier, my friend is self-employed and could not possibly expect the bank/credit card company to pay her when she is not available to deliver to them the service she is paid for.

I live in Tayside and my hourly rate of pay is £3.25. Nothing like down south and i have the same bills and overheads to pay. Iam amazed that so many people think it is wrong for me to take a half fee whilst on holiday. As far a i know for the 16 years i have done this the cm iam friendly with do the same.
Wonder if the employed would be so keen to do without their holiday pay.
I would not be able to run my business and survive financally otherwise.

It is up to the childminder to set his/her rates according to what they think will be acceptable to the customers and to some extent in the locality. As we all know, £6.75 an hour that is often the going rate around Surrey and certainly in many of the London boroughs, simply would not work elsewhere where a figure almost half of that might be more commonplace.

If the childminder believes that their offer of a contract to a parent will be accepted if it includes full holiday-pay then fine - that is a commmercial judgement for the minder. I know a minder (who is very popular and always "full") who charges three full-days a year for her training and her parents seem more than happy to pay it.

It is all to do with the seller pitching the best offer to the buyer. A good example of this is we have a minder in our locality whose charges are way out of line with others. The typical rate around here is between £4 and £5 per hour - I know of nobody who charges a day rate - everything is by the hour. Anyway, this woman moved into the area a couple of years ago and set her rates at £6.50 an hour and full pay for 3 weeks holiday. The amazing thing is she is always getting the most enquiries as parents somehow see her as being better, "Well she must be better if she is charging £6.50 an hour", one prospective parent said to me.

She does live in a very appealing house in a lovely road which I know doesn't necessarily mean a thing but she is genuinely a very good minder and her last three Ofsted inspections have been a 'good' followed by an 'outstanding' followed by another 'good' in all areas.

The rest of us would dearly love to step up our rates a bit and build in some holiday-pay but are worried we will somehow not be able to attract the enquiries.

i dont charge for my holidays but parents to pay through my holidays as i work out the yearly fee and deduct my holidays from it and divide by 12months so parents pay the same all year round regardless of who is on holiday. i do however charge for 3 public holidays as they are outwith annual leave xmas, new yr and easter monday all off my parents dont work these so dont have to pay any1 else to watch there children plus they themselfs are being paid for those days.

I'm a Cm and basically only work term-time and don't charge a retainer for holidays.
That means that I get my holidays with my own kids and DH and the parents only pay if they take their child out of my care during term-time.
In the summer holidays I only offer ad-hoc care for one or two days a week, just so the mindee does not 'forget' us.

I agree, childminders should never charge for their own holidays.
Ridiculous.

Sorry that should say, 150k a year. She earns good money but not that good.

I know the OP is old but it is outrageous for a CM to charge for her own 4wks holiday. Yes, charge for parents holidays as the CM is available for work then but how can a self-employed person think it justifiable to charge when they are not available to deliver the service they are being paid for?

The hours they work or their low salaries are irrelevant here. Someone buying a service is not responsible for the life choices of the person providing that service.

You cannot have it both ways. Either you are self employed or you are not. I have a good friend who is an IT contractor. She earn about 150k a week which means every week she takes off loses her about 3k. Can she say to Barclaycard, 'sorry, I still want that 3k even though I'll be doing nothing for you that week? They'd show her the door and quite right too!

I charge half pay for my holidays of 4 weeks annually and also for my childrens parents 4 weeks.Doing that i lose 10 weeks pay a year as i have four families i childmind for.
We are badly underpaid for the hard work we do as it is and really it would not be worth my while doing it if my husband did not have a good job. My electric and gas bills have almost doubled in the last three years . unfortunately my wages havent. I put my fees up by 25p per hour this year.