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Original poster

new aupair and problems already-help please

59 replies

Totallyfloaty35 · 08/04/2009 17:49

I have an Australian who has been with us just over 2weeks.
I have a problem with the way she speaks to my 2yr old.If dd3 touches her drink(bottled water)an says what this? Aupair says very loudly"ITS MINE,dont touch it,its mine actually" Aupair was putting her own shoes on while sitting on stairs ,dd picked one up to help her put it on(as we do for her) Aupair snapped its my shoe leave it alone.I very calmly said she is just trying to help and removed DD.
Elder dds complained that when they all went to park they couldnt play on anything as they ended up looking after toddler as Aupair sat on a bench and ignored them.Eldest eventually said to her to play with dd3,so she just stood next to the baby swing she was on til dd1 said "well push her then!"
I have said to her we dont speak to dd like that,we explain why she cant do something etc calmly.Aupair also kept telling DD3 she was silly,doing silly things,thats a stupid thing to do,so often that dd1 snapped at her to stop saying her baby sister was silly or she will get a complex.I think that shocked aupair an she hasnt called her silly since(was planning on telling her myself but in a nicer way than dd did).
She is not very pro active,i keep finding her in front of tv
she wont play with dd in garden on trampoline or even push her in toy car,i had to tell her to(i was trying to cook dinner)and she got off garden chair and played with dd3 for 30sec then sat down again.
Im a bit non plussed really,other people have commented on the way she talks as well,Do i give her notice or talk to her again?

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Squiffy · 28/04/2009 09:39

It is completely untrue that you 'cannot give a bad reference' - but you do have to give a FAIR reference. You owe a duty of care to both the person seeking the reference and the employee (and both can sue you). But you can give a bad reference if someone has failed to address shortcomings.

You cannot however just say anything you like, using the 'honesty' argument, because if you raise things with the person asking the reference that you hadn't raised with the employee herself then she could argue that she never had the opportunity to improve. E.G. If you are a nanny and always take the kids to the park, then you would be mightily pissed off if in a reference someone said "she never once took my kids to the swimming pool".

The general exceptions are if you dismiss someone for gross misconduct or because of 'incapability' - in those circs it is obviously impossible to 'address' the issues within continuing employment. Incapility by the way covers things like losing a driving licence if you are a bus driver, stuff like that.

People can ask to see their references, but many employers do refuse. However, if someone has good reason to think they got a bad reference then they can ask a court to force it to be handed over.

so moral of story is to treat ANYONE that you pay as you would expect to be treated yourself by your own employers - proper contracts, scrupulous recording of holidays and sickness, regular reviews, appraisals, check the law and follow disciplinary/dismissal processes professionally. It IS a huge hassle but that's the reposnsibility you have as an enmployer. It is what we expect from our bosses and we shouldn't expect our au pairs/nannies to get less of a service (but I agree, tis a bloody huge hassle)

frannikin · 27/04/2009 18:06

As a nanny I have all my written refs but I have no idea what employers say when someone calls up to check! I'm fairly confident they're all nice about me but if I didn't get a job how would I know it was a negative reference? I'm guessing they wouldn't tell me, or would they?

Original poster
Totallyfloaty35 · 27/04/2009 16:17

its for a gap year assistant house mistress in a big private girls school,the girls are over 11yrs.I was told that you are not allowed to give a bad ref,hence my no comment question.She was told when asked to leave that we didnt like her tone with the children,the shouting was unacceptable and we didnt think she was suited to our family or any with young children or dogs also her cleaning was awful unless we literally stood behind her etc.
I think that was the reason she never applied to be an aupair again,DH did suggest she try getting a job in a theatre/store etc.
Thanks for the info,i will let the school Know that we asked her to leave etc.

OP posts:
shouldbeironing · 27/04/2009 14:39

Just skimmed thru this thread but this AP sounds a bit odd - not just awful with the children but obsessed with her own things and a bit unbalanced TBH. I would encourage her to return home.

willowthewispa · 27/04/2009 14:25

"Saying that, I can't imagine an AP taking action against this (but then I can't imagine an AP putting you down as a reference given everything that happened either, so stranger things have happened)"

Funnily enough, something similar happened to an old boss of mine. She had an au pair who among other things ignored phone calls from the nursery when the little girl she was supposed to be "on-call" for injured herself, and then lied to the mother afterwards accusing the nursery of lying, and took sleeping pills on nights she was alone looking after the little girl despite agreeing not to. The mother asked her to leave, paying her flight home, and it emerged she had all kinds of issues. A couple of weeks later another host family called for a reference. What did she imagine the mother would say?

FabulousBakerGirl · 27/04/2009 14:21

When I was a nanny I was given all my references.

frannikin · 27/04/2009 14:19

Question Squiffy:

How would a childcarer know what was said in a reference? Do they have a right to find out or are references confidential? Does the prospective employer have to say that the application has been rejected due to an unsatisfactory ref? How do you prove whether an issue has been brought up and you've been given the opportunity to correct it or not?

FabulousBakerGirl · 27/04/2009 14:19

What is the point of references if you can't be honest and give a negative one?

Not everyone will assume there is something wrong with the applicant. They could turn it to the boss was annoyed I left so they are bad mouthing me...

Blondeshavemorefun · 27/04/2009 14:17

i am glad she is leaving - your children shouldnt be spoken to the way she spoke to them

regards to a ref, i would say that she only worked for you for xx weeks and you asked her to leave - sure from this other parents will work it out for their selves, and you havent had to say why iykwim

Squiffy · 27/04/2009 14:09

Quick legal alert.

  1. You could be sued by her if you just said 'no comment' and gave no other details. caring for children is one of the very few exceptions where you are expected to give full references because if you don't then that person is more or less guaranteed to NOT get a job - she can then sue you for effectively scuppering her chances.
  2. If you tell someone that they have to leave because you don't get on, or it isn't working, and then tell someone asking a reference that you gave her her notice because she was not good with children then you can also potentially be sued by her - basically you should never raise in a reference something that you haven't already raised with the person herself. If you have an issue with an aspect of someone else's work then you should make clear what that issue is and give the person the opportunity to correct it; and only if they don't then it is 100% ok to mention it. Otherwise they may have grounds to complain.

Saying that, I can't imagine an AP taking action against this (but then I can't imagine an AP putting you down as a reference given everything that happened either, so stranger things have happened)

frannikin · 27/04/2009 09:29

As long as you've brought things up with her you can give a truthful reference. You can definitely say that she was dismissed and give the reasons why.

Put it this way - would you be happy having her employed in your DCs school? If she was and you later found out that she'd been an au pair and been dismissed for the above reasons how would you feel?

PixiNanny · 26/04/2009 21:45

She's applying for a school now? As willow said, tell them the truth or the no comment will work. If you didn't want to rant abut how great she was with you then there must be a reason why and though you canot give a bad reference refusing to give one makes people wonder.

willowthewispa · 26/04/2009 20:26

I think you should tell the truth if they call. You could always mention any good points she had - punctual, organised, speaks great English? - but also say she didn't get on with the children and you asked her to leave.

Original poster
Totallyfloaty35 · 26/04/2009 19:54

Ok,have had call and aupair has put me down as a reference on her job application was speechless but what do i say when the school calls to talk to me? are you allowed to say no comment?

OP posts:
Original poster
Totallyfloaty35 · 20/04/2009 13:03

she has friends of her parents who live in London and a much older half brother who lives in Europe(her dads first marriage apparently).
Im a sucker when aupairs cry,i suppose you cant help thinking of your own child in that situation,but its def right that she goes and i feel relieved that i know longer have to keep telling her to calm down or not to throw a hissy when her shoes are handed to her by the baby.
We find out this eve where she going.
Thanks everyone for all your support,im off to baby music class now,DD3 most favourite thing

OP posts:
blueshoes · 20/04/2009 10:03

totallyfloaty, but stick to your guns.

You said she has relatives in London. You won't be flinging her out into the streets. She definitely should not be aupairing. I am surprised she is not self-aware enough to realise this without your pointing it out.

PixiNanny · 20/04/2009 01:23

Could've been, APWorld is where they got me so I assumed that they used the same website! shrugs

And how can she like you if she treats the kids so badly :s

Original poster
Totallyfloaty35 · 19/04/2009 23:17

I think its greataupair where you can post about bad experiences,dont think its possible on aupair world.
Aupair cried a lot today says she likes us and wants to stay,felt awful and dh cracked and said she can stay for 2 extra days only because kids are back at school/nursery and we are both home.Apparently she is waiting for a call from home to see if she is going home or to see her brother(he lives in Europe)Her mum trying to sort it out,looks like she may not go straight back to aupairing(advised her to try something else) so we shall see.

OP posts:
blueshoes · 19/04/2009 16:10

Harriet, interesting about the legal implications of defamation.

I probably won't go so far as to post anything up on a website. But if someone were to contact me for a reference (!), I would either say very little, if I was being cautious and let them draw their own conclusions from that, OR just a vague statement that if I had to do it again, I would not have hired her, OR I would give very specific and concrete irrefutable examples of her behaviour, truth being a defence to any defamation claim.

blueshoes · 19/04/2009 16:01

Pixinanny, I use APWorld and whilst I can see how many families have contacted the aupair, I don't think there is any way I can get the family details to contact them.

Maybe it is GreatAupair? There, families can post a complaint, violations against an aupair's profile.

PixiNanny · 19/04/2009 13:08

I'm pretty sure it was APWorld, unsure though. One where when a family show public interest really, not sure how they did it though tbh! I remember my Mum sabotaging a website with the help of her PC geek brother after my parents rented it for a family holiday and paid stupid amounts for it and it ended up being in a really rough area of the Canaries and the apartment was delapidated (the photos on the website had been of this persons own apartment in a completely different area! O_O), so I suppose if you know what you are doing anything can be done!

I hate the APs and Nannies who give the rest of us a bad name gah

sdr · 19/04/2009 09:40

As a NZer, please don't let your experience with her put you off us. Most of us are fairly easy going and used to looking after younger family and having animals around. But as a mum who's had nanny's for years while I've worked, you got a bad apple there. You did the right thing getting onto it quickly. Good luck with your next aupair.

HarrietTheSpy · 19/04/2009 08:41

I think you've really tried to be very understanding with this girl.

Not that it matters at this point but what I meant by telling you about our first nanny is to illustrate/back up Blueshoes' point re "sabotage." Our nanny wasn't live in so it took a different form.

If she doesn't go on Monday as planned, I would do the calls thing and also be careful with the other stuff anyway.

Interesting re the person who contacted the other interested families on APW. I didn't realise you could do that - I wonder if the au pairs do? I wonder if there are any legal implications of that?

Original poster
Totallyfloaty35 · 18/04/2009 22:12

No didnt invite her,but she said she was going to get the train to town so felt guilty and said would give her a lift in,then she would not go away,even when i said she could go off by herself an would text her when we leaving if she needed a lift.
Always feel rubbish when an aupair experience falls apart,feel like i failed,like i missed something and its hard work on the kids,they loved last aupair and one before that to.Also feel sad for Aupair as she far from home and although obviously she is deluded about her abilities to aupair she is still away from friends and family and as a mum to a teenager i know she must still be feeling pretty isolated, i would hate for my DD to have a bad experience,although if she was that awful with kids would have advised her to spend gap year doing something else.
I dont think aupair is type to steal,use phone endlessly etc,she just has really crappy manner and should probably be working in a store or something.If i see her profile activated(its not yet) then will post here and anyone worried they may have contacted her can cat me and i will tell you who she is.

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PixiNanny · 18/04/2009 21:14

Why did she go out with you guys? Was it because she was invited out of courtesy or did she invite herself? I leave my host family to it and if they nvite me then I go!

My host fam had an AP before me and she was a terror, hated kids, just made them food and done the basics and hid in her room the rest of the time and left the kids to it (they are very independant because of this experience!) When she posted a new profile on APWorld/whatever site they contacted the families who'd shown public interest in her to let them know what she was like and why she'd been fired!