IMHO some people have gone completley batty

i'm happy to call a spade a spade: i think it's disgusting to boast about how little you pay your childcarer, and i think you have in the past been guilty of this uwila. I also think that most children do suffer when a long term carer is changed: not irrevocably perhaps, but in a way that needs sensitivity and focus during and after the change. to argue that becuase your child ignored the carer, therefore she wasn't affected and isn't she resilient might be true. on the other hand, she might be demonstrating a form of insecurity which defends by detaching.

rtkanga is not doing a good job of making an important point: we have complex relationships with the people that care for our children in our stead: we want them to love our children, but some of us don't want our children to love them back, and to reserve that love for us as parents. its easy to see how an ambivalence towards childcarers is commonplace: you're v important as you're looking after my children/you're not that important, and definitely replaceable as i am the main person in my children's life. In my opinion, however hard it is, we need to respect (yes that dreaded word) the childcarers enough to realise that they are crucial people in our childrens lives, and act accordingly.

Oh oh oh.... speaking of Tanzie's thread. Remember the guest1 poster on NJ and no one could figure out who it was. The key to the puzzle seems to have been the use of the word riled.... and someone just used that word?????? Any belated confessions on offer??????

Yes, we have a foursome! I rarely get that many people on my team around here.

But, seriously, Kanaga did make thinly veiled personal attacks. The reason I recognise them is because they are in fact directed at me. She did this by referencing things I have said on past threads (and taken them out of context I might add) but didn't tell anyone what she was doing so most of the people reading this thread don't realise that these comments come from elsewhere. But, Kanga knew what she was doing, and so did I, which I why I exposed this technique many many post down this thread.

BTW, Crunchie, I don't mind you using my name at all. I appreciate the defense.

And, furthermore, for Kanga to start this row and then in the end play the poor pitiful me card as if SHE has been unjustly attacked is really pretty immature.

OOps - apologies if I wasn't very nice back there didn't mean to be just couldn't beliefe the thread was still going.

I am going to stop posting on it now and hope Kanga is ok.

She isn't looking after children today, she said earlier that her mindee's mother is on maternity leave.

Kangamummy, I'm really worried about you. If you want to talk, I'm here for a while.

RTKM The thing is people totally agree with most of the points you have made, I know I do. I agree that children are teh most important thing and how we bring them up/what childcare we have is also vital as it does impact hugely on their lives. Therefore what you say about respecting our childcare providers once again is spot on.

Personally, and I am sorry if I upset you, what I didn't like was the money arguement. That unfortuneatly seemed to cloud the main point you are making, and that is what I am others I feel got riled about.

I didn't mean to upset anyone, I was angry as I felt you were demanding we respect everyone who came in contact with our children, but were not offering up teh same respect yourself. I hope you accept my apology as I know through other threads you are a nice genuine person

I'm very concerned if she is supposed to be looking after children...

Tanzie I think that was established long ago. Think people are just concerned about RTKM

look

I agree with Crunchie, Uwila and Ameriscot.

"I never asked anyone to come on here to comment on my opinion.." (quoting RTKM).

Well why post it then? Do you not think that people who post on MUMSNET (note the name!) do not care about their children? Would we be posting here at all if we didn't give a shit about our kids or who looked after them? As I've said, everyone wants the best they can afford for their children (and money is clearly an issue for you as you have mentioned it in your first thread). I don't see anyone here who is treating their nanny/au pair like shit and paying them peanuts. I'm sure there are some about, but I don't think you'll find them here.

I'm sorry you're upset, but I also see this as a veiled attack on a few mumsnetters, and probably leading on from my thread about nannies and market rates.

Thanks blu. You have put it much better than I could. Something seems awry here.

Come on, you can't accuse someone of thinly veiled attacks and then expect to get away with blatent personal attacks on that person.

KM, don't get upset, none of it is worth being upset about.

Kanga - no-one quite understands what you are arguing about. Everyone agrees that children are important, and that everyone looking after their children needs to be caring, nurturing, and above all responsible. no-one is going to leave their children with an Old english sheep Dog a la Peter Pan.

In all honesty, you seem to have got yourself in a confusion between wishing to argue particular points on some other thread and making general 'be nice, care about kids' comments. When people discuss the specific complexities of this, the difference between cost and value, market forces, qualifications needed, what we value when we agree cost - you are taking it as a criticism or disagreement of your 'love the kids' message - which it doesn't need to be!

And to be honest it does sound from your postings as if you have been drinking or are upset.

Anything you want to share with us?

Steady one, watershipdown.
RTKM, I'll say again, are you OK? I just thought your repeated posts seemed a little strange. Is everything OK?

Ouch, o salty fish

Jeez Kanga can you make up your mind what your whole point is. First it is the kdis, then its the childcare (in what ever form) and it goes on, and on, and on, and on. Here take a happy pill.

very supportive watershipdown

Critiquing your opinion is the correct way to debate.

It may have been more helpful to all concerned if you had padded out your opinions with details, examples etc. instead of repeating the same ideas over and over.

Ameriscot I completely appreciate every point you've made along the way but it's a bit like you're the one who's being offensive now? Not very nice imo

I can't beliefe that I have once again looked at this thread and see it is still going a total 358 messages.

Again ladies can i RESPECTfully suggest that everyone stop posting because Kanga lost the plot a long time ago and obviously is unable to answer other peoples questions because she keeps throwing up cows manure every time.

Get a life Kanga!!!

snort. Stop that now!

I don't think Kanga respects me...

I don't think you're getting anywhere Ameriscot
All very bizarre.
Seriously, RTKM, are you OK?