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Nanny pay & contract Problems - Help

109 replies

DawnNAPM · 24/03/2009 13:12

Hi, we have had a Nanny for more than 5 years. In that time she has had one child and returned to work bringing her daughter with her.

We went down the normal route of maternity leave and pay etc and by the time she returned to work, all of my children were at full time school. At this point we agreed to reduce her hours so that she only came in before school each day and after school each day. i.e nothing in between. Her original contract with us stated that her employment was only until all 3 of my children were at fulltime school so rather than let her go completely we agreed to reduce her hours. She also got 4 weeks paid holiday (2 of our choosing) and 2 of hers and at least 2 additional weeks off on top of this as well as all hers and her childs meals whilst at my house, petrol money, and at least one afternoon or morning off a week.

We also verbally agreed that this new arrangement would only be for the 1st year that my youngest was at school and then we would not need a nanny any more. After my youngest child had completed his first year, we agreed with the Nanny that she would stay on a bit longer just to make sure my son was happy but that we would review the situation regularly as we really did not need a nanny any more. She was happy with this situation as I believe she knew she was onto a good thing with us in terms of what we actually expected of her (no cleaning or ironing) and what she was being paid. In fact I got feedback from other local mums and friends etc. who repeated that the nanny had been overheard saying she would never leave us as she was on a cushy number!

My husband and I decided, during half term 2007 that we would review the nanny situation as we were paying a lot for very little (apart from continuity of care) and we agreed that when the nanny came back from the holiday that she had chosen to take during half term !! that we would give her notice and ask her to finish at Christmas. This was effectively giving her 2 months notice.

When the nanny returned from her holiday the first thing she did was to announce that she was pregnant with her 2nd child. This was a bit of a shock as we knew the nanny was in a fairly unstable relationship, with significant money problems etc so we were a little surprised.

However, as a direct result of her announcement we felt it would be unreasonable of us to give her notice as she would never find another job bearing in mind she already had a toddler that she bought to work with her. So we kept quiet and left things as they were until after Christmas. In the new year some 5 months before her baby was due I spoke to her and also confirmed in writing that that we would not want her back once her Mat leave had finished as we were going to get a childminder or find someone for after school care only. I also explained that we were actually going to let her go the previous October but due to her PG we kept her on.

All was going well, mat pay was all sorted and paid to her up front as a lump sum again with written confirmation that she would not be needed back after her mat leave ended.

I though that was the end of it we found a local childminder and all my children were happy. When the Nanny actually left I said we may be able to use her for come casual work when she was ready to return but not in a Nanny capacity but maybe for occasional after school days etc. Also on the basis that I could not and would not want her to bring both of her children with her. At the time she had no one available to look after them so it was a bit of a non starter.

Now the bombshell... (thanks for hanging in there if you are still reading!)

She has now written to me saying her and her partner are hard up and she wants her job back, also that she wants redundancy pay, holiday pay for her mat period and notice pay. To say I feel that I have been HAD is the understatement of the year. Why oh why didn't I let her go when I had originally planned to rather than keep her on to help her out! I have copies of the letters I have sent her which she now claims to have not ever received and she wants me to do the right thing and pay her off....her words not mine. I have provided her with her P45, when her mat leave pay period ended, admittedly a little late as I had forgotten but I really do not see why I should pay her any more money.

It is not my fault she is hard up, I heave treated her fairly for more than 5 years, my oldest child is now 15 and I made it quite clear to her at the start that this would not be a Job for Life etc etc.

I know this post may provoke some debate but I do not think I have been unreasonable and in fact have always paid her for any extra hours, babysitting, generous gifts at Birthday and Christmas and on both births etc. No I need to decide what to do. My husband is adamant that we tell her to go away and to top it all she has been making snide comments to my new childminder that she has "stolen her job" etc etc.

I am gutted and cannot see our family ever maintaining a relationship with her but am in a quandary as to what to do about the pay situation. I have spoken to the redundancy helpline who were useless and also to ACAS who have said that they think I have a case and that if she took me to tribunal I would be treated fairly no one seems to specialise in situations like this regarding nannies as it is unusual.

At the end of the day I did not treat the nanny unreasonably, the fact that she was pregnant did complicate matters but with my children the ages they were I really did not need her anymore and she knew this was the case. I was actually going to give her more than the contracted amount of notice. She could have started looking for another job when I originally wrote to her about it or as soon as she went on Mat leave etc. But now her money has run out she wants some of mine.

Any comments/advice or help would be much appreciated.

Dawn

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Nabster · 24/03/2009 14:11

I am just wondering the idfference I guess. I have only ever been given notice when the family no longer needed a nanny so I have always had the same experience.

flowerybeanbag · 24/03/2009 14:08

How do you mean is that enough? Enough as in instead of paying her in lieu of notice in one go? Yes notice can be given in terms of time rather than a lump of money, but if an employer doesn't follow a fair dismissal procedure and doesn't pay redundancy pay in the event of redundancy being the reason for dismissal, then there is a problem.

Nabster · 24/03/2009 14:05

Isn't that enough?

Nabster · 24/03/2009 14:04

But she gave notice? Is that enough?

flowerybeanbag · 24/03/2009 13:59

AN the unfair dismissal would be about the way she was dismissed, ie without a proper procedure and pay. It seems fairly clear that Dawn was perfectly reasonable to dismiss her, in fact could have easily done so sooner, but if she didn't do it correctly that's where there's a problem.

AtheneNoctua · 24/03/2009 13:54

I can certainly see why you are annoyed. You have been very generous to her over the years and thanks you are getting that she is throwing the book at you. Unfortunately, the book will dictate your responsibilities.

If your contract was not fixed term, you do probably owe her some redundancy pay. I don't understand how she could claim unfair dismissal (but I know flowery will know more than I do).

When did your contract actually end?

flowerybeanbag · 24/03/2009 13:36

Interesting that you say it's 'not your fault she's hard up'. That's hardly the point is it? Whether or not someone's hard up doesn't make them more or less deserving of money they are entitled to.

Imagine it was your own daughter. If she'd been made redundant from a job but hadn't had money owing to her you'd be up in arms and getting her to try and get everything she is entitled to, regardless of how well her employer may have otherwise treated her.

Summersoon · 24/03/2009 13:32

Very sorry to hear about your problem. All I can say is that I think that you need to take legal advice asap - this is an employment law issue, which seems to me to circle around the question of whether your nanny was entitled to redudancy pay, holiday pay and notice pay (not sure what the difference is to redundancy pay) when she left. You could try a service like nannytax, which does offer some legal advice or go to an employment lawyer. Good luck!

flowerybeanbag · 24/03/2009 13:27

I appreciate that you are frustrated, but unfortunately most of what you have posted is completely irrelevant I'm afraid. The basic facts are that you made her redundant, (perfectly reasonably and understandably), but you didn't follow a proper procedure and didn't pay her redundancy pay.

Other ways in which it was a cushy job and you were generous, gave her birthday presents and babysitting, and the fact that you decided not to go ahead with the redundancy at one point because she was pregnant unfortuantely don't affect anything at all. That's not her fault.

When did her employment actually end? The bottom line is if you are making her redundant, she is entitled to redundancy pay and notice, and if she was employed during her maternity leave she is entitled to holiday pay for her maternity leave as well. If her employment ended less than 3 months ago she can claim unfair dismissal, but if it was longer ago than that there's not a lot she can do about it now.

What was in the letters she is claiming to have lost or not received?