For mums who employ nannies/housekeepers and nannies too... please have a look and let me know your opinion....

Some great advice already on this thread, but to add in, I think this job sounds terrifying and overwhelming - I think that's why you are struggling to hold someone down - think about it - would you take this job on, if you weren't actually the parent of the children? It's like being a SAHM with a partner who is never home before 8pm and who leaves the house at 7am - you'd be on your knees without a bit of help and respite - especially doing contractual evenings as well - no time to properly "relax" and be on down time. Ok - that's the honest response - now some practical thoughts:

I think you need more than one employee. I would hire a cleaner separately to do the basics once a week. Sod the rest - life will go on.

I would talk to friends with kids and get separate babysitter recommendations. All your kids are now old enough not to be phased by a new face, and the older ones are there to keep the younger ones feeling secure.

Per Helsbels4 - do you really need your nanny before you go to work? Is there not a creative bit of networking to be done with getting them to school via friends and or neighbours? If you can get them dressed (don't envy you, I struggle with two, and only one of them is actually required to be out of the door by 8.45am).

Good luck.

If you want to employ a part-time nanny from 3-8pm but for the first hour and a half she'll be expected to do chores then from 4.30pm it'll be tea-time(ish) then presumably wind-down/bath/reading that kind of thing then bed, I don't see much childcare going on there. To me it looks as if you need a Mother's help, not a qualified nanny

LisaLisa you say "I cook , I clean and I teach kids ( my own) heavily after hours . I run them around to activities and i shop ( for food clothes for them) supervise activities, read bedtime stories every single night , sing songs to each before bed ( of the 3 littlies) and try to find time to spend one on one wiht my teen and 9 yr old too. Sigh..... And I do playdates too"

These are all jobs that the nanny should be doing -
*A nanny should be able to shove together a casserole, a pie, lasage etc or put things in the slow cooker during the day if no children about.
*Drive/take children to activities/do the school run
*Supervise/Plan activities
*Meal plan and shop for the ingredients
*Supervise/take on playdates

When I work for a sahm - I supervise breakfast, clear up the kitchen - load dishwasher, and then get 3 children dressed 1 toddler - 2 schoolies (4/6) teeth brushed, hair brushed etc.

SAHM drives them to school

I make the children's beds, take dirty pj's dowstairs, as well as cups etc, put on a load of washing, then either take little one out for the morning to activities etc - get back and put little one in the playroom whilst I cook up some lunch for her, empty the washing machine and tumbel drier, put the wet washing in the tumble drier. Go through and fold washing with the toddler.

Put away toys in the play room and serve lunch for toddler - put to bed, for afternoon nap (2 hours) then do a quick clean of the kitchen sides etc. Mop the floor, then hoover the downstairs rooms. Grab my self some lunch.

Iron children's clothes, place parents to the side, put clothes away, put ironingboard/iron away, and if time have a quick tidy of the children's rooms - possibly change the sheets if needed etc - change towels.

Head downstairs and start a preparation of the evenings meal - if it's going to be a busy day after school - otherwise I cook at tea time. Sit down with a cup of tea for a short break.

Afternoon consists of taking youngest out again - then heading back in time for SAHM to return with the children. SAHM might then listen to reading in the other room, or disapear and I will supervise activities / take the children for a walk for the hour before dinner needs sorting.

Sort dinner/watch children, lay the table or delegate the task. Serve dinner and eat with the children, tidy up sides, wash up pans etc - load dishwasher.

Then the children have a chance to play on the computer but they have to tidy the playroom first - followed this by bath time, milk and a snack in front of the tv then its bedtime.

If I could drive then I would do pick ups from school etc - or take them to school /pick up from activities etc. Also would expect to make the packed lunches if children didn't have school meals.

I also batch cook meals so when we do have a busy day then I have meals ready cooked etc.

What core hours do you work outside the home LisaLisa - is there a reason why the employee would have to work until 8?

looks sensible. only comments would be

1. can AP do your ironing - does the school run plus cleaning the kitchen and running the hoover really take until 10.30? Alternatively, would you alternate hoovering and ironing?

1. do you need the nanny to work until 8pm on the days the AP is babysitting? if you can save a few hours there that would increase your cleaning budget.

1. washing - do you have time to put all the washing in the machine in the morning and then ask the nanny to take it out/dry it? this wouldn't be much more work for her than doing all the children's laundry and might fit into your schedule. All my nannies have been happy to do a proportion of the total laundry rather than just the children's - it's only ironing that gets differentiated and provided you are doing some of it it doesn't seem unfair.

and re putting the nanny to work, what I really meant is that you need to relax a bit more because with that schedule, you will burn out I think. It's far too much, I don't know how you've managed so far without having some sort of mental health issue! As hard as it can be, if you have people there to help, you do need to lean on them if you get my drift.

yes, think that's probably a good plan, the separate people . Wasn't mocking you at all re cleaning just that I know it is important to some people's mental well being and tbh, I would love a cleaner but atm, we can't justify one. Maybe we will with time.

Good luck with it all!

OMG no wonder you are knackered!

ok...

the nanny can do clothes shopping and food shopping (can do food during the day while everyone at school)

when you say teach, they are at school yes? so combine reading homework with a bedtime story. I have to be honest here and say I don't read to mine any more (2 children, 7 and 8 yr old but 7 yr old ds what I would call err challenging). I just don't have the time but we do lots of cuddles at bedtime and kissing in bed.

Nanny does all their homework with them.

Kitchen floor, I ignore. It's tiles, it looks ok. If there's a big spillage it gets cleaned up otherwise it waits for a weekly hoover. Probably once a week I'll have a go at it myself but it never stays clean long anyway.

Children hoover once a week, normally Sat morning or Sun morning which sounds odd but I then take them out for a coffee and cake as a treat for them helping. They LOVE this. I would never have believed it would work out so well.

The nanny keeps their rooms tidy during the week and on the weekend they make a mess.

I think the key is lowering your standards. But I am quite messy and disorganised so for me it doesn't fuck with my head iyswim. If a non tidy/non spotless house fucks with your head (and I know it does with some people), you need to think of a plan b. BUT the house is ok, totally presentable. A good nanny will keep it in order anyway tbh.

I think your problem is you are worried about the hours the nanny does so don't let her do enough tbh.

Lisalisa - have sent you a CAT, if you reply I can email you my spreadsheets.

It is a headache (especially remembering to draw cash out each week to pay AP and cleaner), but still far less stressful than the other options I have tried.

I think your list of what you need is more than a "normal" nanny job. The two main issues are the extent of the housekeeping required and the lack of sole charge clarity. I think the hours, though long, are not necessarily a problem for a live in nanny but most nannies, in my experience, want to look after children not housework (and if she's doing your laundry there will be a small mountain I suspect). My second observation follows on from this - if you, as mother, are doing "the best bits" of the role (not a criticism) but as a result they are unable to plan/organise a routine for the children but have to fill in whenever you want (this may be wrong - you may have a very organised weekly routine but I didn't get this impression from your description of the household) then it won't appeal to career nannies.

If I were you I think I would write down everything that needed to be done to keep the house running and the children looked after and then work out the bits you want/are able to do and then from what's left work out whether you are looking for a nanny, a cleaner or an au pair or some combination of the three. You can then advertise with a very clear job description that is consistent from week to week. This way you should get the right person/people.

This approach won't work if you can't be consistent in your own contribution - but I don't know how much flexibility you need or want. Whilst I can see that maximising flexibility will suit you - it makes the nanny/cleaner/au pairs job much less satisfactory and may be worth compromising on as a result.

Oh, and the cost of my nanny and AP combined blows your budget, but only by £2.50 a week. Once you take in taxes on top, it will come in just under (becausse the AP bit is tax-free)

If the SP needs to drive then make sure you stick to over 23 years old only, othwerwise the insurance cost will bite you.

LisaLisa - I learnt a while back to never try to fix these kinds of hours/needs with one person.

I reckon you need a live-in au pair, a live-out nanny, and a cleaner on top. We work to that in our house. It is really, really complicated to set up the 'scehdules' initially, but works like magic in practice.

We have the nanny do 3 early starts and 2 'lates' each week, and the au pair does 2 early starts, 3 lates and ad-hoc babysitting on top. The AP also makes up to his 25 hours with cleaning/ironing when the kids are at school/nursery. During holidays he drops all of the cleaning/ironing and we have the nanny do 9-6 each day and the AP does the wrap around morning/eveining and neither of them do any lates or babysitting.

Total hours that we work to are 42 for the nanny and 25 for the AP (including soem weekend work every other week). We also have a cleaner once a week to change beds/do bathrooms and some of the deep-clean stuff. Oh, and we send out our shirts for ironing because the AP - delightful though he is - just doesn't cut the mustard here

If you want I can send you a copy of my 'schedules' - tis a work of art, I swear. I think that you will do better with a live-out nanny than a live-in one because a live-in one doign those hours will always be able to find another family that are less time-intensive; a local live-out nanny means that you can share the unsociable stuff with an AP, so is likely to be better for both.

also the nanny tidies up after the children (who make most of the mess anyway) as that's part of what she does so generally the house is quite tidy tbh as both dh and I WOTH

well we also can't afford a cleaner on top of the nanny at the moment so I have err put the kids to work a bit.

I do the loo/bathroom as I don't think they'd get the hygiene bit (!) but they hoover, clean their rooms and I wipe down the kitchen every night (which is all it needs). Loo/bathroom only gets done once a week but I do squirt bleach round if needed.

The nanny, very kindly, shoves the washing on during the week (not always). I/dh takes it out and puts it in the tumble drier and then we fight as to who puts it away (normally dh as I cook the evening meal). Sometimes the nanny actually does that all for us but I don't ask her to (and I do know that some nannies do the children's laundry as part of their duties so you might look at that? get a separate basket for the children and get the new nanny to do their washing during the day?). Mainly we do the washing on the weekend though.

oh lisa, she MUST cook

god you must be knackered working a day like that and then doing what you are doing afterwards

For what you are looking for you should pay the aupair - at least 150pw. or maybe you could get aupair to work 7-12noon (tidy up,iron etc). plus 3 nights babysitting for 90pw..this hours would appeal more as she could prehaps find another little job or study or just do whatever. and you could then get an after school liveout nanny for 7ph 3.00 -7pm for 140pw min. so prehaps 240pw min both paid.