For mums who employ nannies/housekeepers and nannies too... please have a look and let me know your opinion....

I work similiar hours to what you want (well longer actually) and am on 355/week live in with nearly the same number of kids. As a nanny I think the weekend babysitting is a bit much to ask. I never ever get a night off during the week so I cant play a team sport or go to the movies or even get a late night flight on a Friday. I do all the childrens laundry etc and very minimal cleaning. I am a trained nanny not a cleaner. As for the time during the day. I am meant to have some time off but how can I when I don't know if a child will be sick at school etc so I cant go to far from the house. Nannies will do these weekday hours for a good salary but will refuse the weekend work. You really need to either get rid of the weekend babysitting and ensure the nanny gets time off during the day, get your kids to do more cleaning or hire a cleaner.

and we have a cleaner too.

oh, have just read the whole thread now!

I would suggest that you have an au pair and a nanny. We have 5 children, are in similar jobs to you (iirc you are a solicitor) and have both.

you are asking the nanny to work a 65 hour week then 3 babysits as well ... one if which during her weekend.

I think you are expecting too many hours to be honest and not giving the nanny a chance to have a life of her own (bear in mind will finish a 13 hour day at 8pm on friday night)

i see this has been said by previouse posters but this is way too many hours, ok she has free time in the day but its not her own time

I dont think you can expect anyone to commit long term to know free time and hardly any chance for their own life

you MIGHT find someone willing to do a 13 hour day (weekedays) but agree you need to find another person to babysit for you

My very first nanny position I worked 7am - 8pm six days a week usually two/three nights baby sitting a week - yes I did have NO life for the four years I held that job.

I worked for a SAHM (who was out alot) and had a 3yo, 15mn, and 3 mn old when I started, oh and when no 4 was born 18 months later I did full care of her day and night! I did full care of all children and kept house tidy - there was a housekeeper who came in for four hours one morning a week, it was very busy, I rarely did get to sit down even for lunch - I learnt a lot from my time there the most important was that's its ok to say NO and to realise that I didn't have to do it all! I had three years training and two year nanny experience. Perhaps look for a nanny who is newly trained.

I think definetly share the hours between a nanny, aupair and cleaner. 60 hours is far too many hours for a long term position!

if you don't get my CAT, I can answer this evening from my home email if you send me your details

lisa at gk66 dot com

lisa - if you hired someone from your own religious background couldn't you get them to do the cooking as well? It would take another thing off your list.

just a thought

My aupairs do holiday cover. Normally, they work only 5 hours per weekday. That is doubled during school holidays with corresponding uplift in pocket money.

Lisalisa, as you probably know, aupairs tend to do Sept to summer next year. The aupair should be trustworthy enough to do the half-term breaks. Christmas they usually go home so you/dh have to cover that. For the 6-week summer hols, you can either use the same aupair (if she is prepared to cover) or hire a summer aupair.

Am prone to the dramatic turn of phrase

Sorry lisalisa - didn't mean to! I think I just meant to point out that it's not so much the practical hours working, as the complete theoretical "on call" status which seems akin to a Junior Doctor - that's what I mean by overwhelming - just how much of your nanny's life is not here own, almost especially as it's live in. It's the kind of overwhelming you accept as a parent, but maybe not as an employee....

Anyway, I think the consensus seems to be to split the job into more than one - not least separating the housework and childcare duties...

I would at least get rid of the 3 nights babysit on top of those hrs.Hire a babysitter for those hours.

lisalisa - have you factored in school holidays to your revised plan? on the face of it AP doing mornings and p-t nanny doing the late shift sounds great - but wouldn't it only work in term time?

I think you might have to be open-minded too, re hours, from the nanny's pov. 25 hours a week isn't much, and nannies might find it hard to find a job to fill the other hours - esp as they are spread across 5 days, iyswim.

I do also think that lots of nannies like being with little ones, and like being in charge of daily activities etc - getting out to toddler groups etc. if you're around, albeit ferrying etc, it does sound a bit more like a mothers-help type job (not that labels are that important - what's important is agreeing with prospective employees what the job entails)

one thing you could think about (to solve the holidays issue and make the job more attractive) is a contract with different term-time and holiday hours. tot up an annual total of hours and divide by 52 to come up with a regular weekly salary. some nannies might like this - some might not. It would up the total hours but would make it even harder to supplement with another job.

also are you sure about £10 an hour including tax - that's very cheap for a live out nanny.

one last thing - I'd recommend speaking to the lovely people at Simply Childcare - you can advertise your job with them, but they also advise you on framing the advert, and on matching what you need with what other people are offering. I've seen jobs advertised with titles like "third/surrogate parent" which could be the type of thing that could help you get the right person.

13hrs a day plus 3nights babysitting is a lot and tbh no nanny/hk would want to do that

i like the idea of an ap, cleaner and after school nanny

I am looking at the hours you said. I am sure that is really a 1.5 person job.

To provide cover for 13 hours per day x 5 days per week is 65 hours. On top of that you say evening baby sitting as well and at weekend.

I know the nanny is not actually working all those hours - but looks like she is not actually allowed to leave the house so is technically 'working'.

The person doing this job has almost no real time to themselves.

Maybe you could say offer an arrangment where you employ a cleaner and then arrange for repairmen, etc to vist in the morning so the nanny has her afternoon off before picking up children.

I think your nannys are leaving because it really does not sound like much of a life. I suspect they probably go to employers who allow them more regular hours.

Apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick.

I actually think if you were prepared to have foreign nannies (maybe Australians/NZ/SA) who only wanted to stay for 12 months, and a daily cleaner, it might be a better solution. But it would mean recruiting every year.

In my experience, nanny-housekeeper roles don't work. You either get someone who is good with the housekeeping but not keen on the children (as you seem to have) or someone who really wants to be with the children and finds the housekeeping a chore. Added to that in your job seems to be the problems of very long hours (even with the time off in the day, the early starts and late finishes, plus babysits, are very draining) and the confusion between sole/shared charge in the evenings.