Nannies: market rates (bit controversial)

My dh had v posh english nannies as a child and then went to boarding school, looked after by nannies in the hols. When I met him at uni he still had his old nanny drive over 60 miles each way to make his lunch and iron nice creases in his jeans. His sister couldn't even cook frozen peas when she was 18!

I think part of bringing up children and seeing to their development is ensuring that they are capable of doing their own laundry, cooking their own meals and cleaning their own bedroom. How can this be the case if a nanny won't ever use the dishwasher or do the laundry? I wouldn't expect a nanny to be a cleaner but I would expect him/her to teach basic cookery and daily domestic chores as part of their role.

What are the kids learning if their carers are portraying these essential chores as demeaning?

Ameriscot2005, I was hoping we could get back to what i belive was my 1st question to you re qualifactions.
I asked if you you would sit back and NOT defend your qualifactions, if you have any. I am not trying to be rude here, just mearly looking for an answer

Who defines what a "fair wage" is? Who's to say that Euronannies aren't getting a "fair wage"? If they are content with their pay, what is the fuss about?

Im not so sure that most nannies look for the job with the most money.
I know I have earned a heck of a lot more in other jobs than where I am just, but this family and I "conneceted", and I dont want to be anywhere else. The Mum must also feel its right, as she was going to give up work if I couldnt return to them.

I'm afraid it's just another example of jobs moving east.
Most manufacturing work has now left Britain, some to central Europe, some to China.
Call centres have gone to India.
Secretarial work is done in India and returned electronically overnight to UK for posting.
Jobs based in the UK (e.g. nannies) are just the latest to feel the impact of the free movement of labour (farm work and hotel work were involved a lot earlier).
What will the future bring? Who can guess? I wouldn't think there are many safe jobs now. Wage rates in UK are likely to fall.
Whether it's right or wrong, it's the way it is.

MrsBigD I am sorry if I sounded like I was having a go at you. I really wasn't I know with our nanny she could have got better pay elsewhere (and now has) but at least we didn't expect her to do more than she should do. When we had her my DH entire wage after childcare was £50 a week!! (he pays childcare as i am the main breadwinner) therefore it was hardly worth him working We also probably should have paid her more, but we couldn't afford it. However I think her knowledge/training and social group of friends (nanny mafia) gave her the advantage over an overseas nanny. However we are not in London, we live in Colchester, so other friends were really important and there used to be a gang of nannies/kids that played together a lot. This worked for me and my kids, and I couldn't imagine an overseas nanny coming here and being able to offer my kids this.

Perhaps if we had space for a live-in nanny I would look at an overseas nanny, but we needed a local person as we didn't have live-in space.

I suppose it just makes me cross the threads where people are trying to 'save' money by not paying fair wages/not paying sick pay etc etc. But then we were lucky we had supernanny who lived in teh next village to us

my company boss if off again.. and another thing if she's off sick or the childs off sick I have to pay someone else to do the job I have to pay twice... my company is struggling anyway I can't afford staff off sick and pay them.

Dear Mums
a few points i want to POLITLY make clear here are:

1. I am on here at this time of the day, because I work 3 days a week. This is my choice to do so, mostly due to health issuses and dealing with hospital appointments. When I am at work, then I deal with the children, 100%.

2. most of the photos on our website are NOT of our charges, they are of naany own children, not employers children or like other case, neices and nephews. We have permission to use these photos.

Lastly I love Nanny Job, in the same way you guys love Mumsnet, as each has its own qualitys.
I cant belive some of you got so angry at they Nannies for defending our reputation, and education, which was taking a beating last night.

I felt very hurt and insulted by some of the comments being thrown at me.

I am a great Nanny, and proud to be one!
Thankyou for reading.

not necessarily 'as good' but that is what this whole issue is about, lets not go there again

not currently working at the moment, still on maternity leave, if i was i wouldn't be on this site now!!

it is also about finance mrsbigd and i think that is where the confusion has come in some are talking about those who can afford the quality nannies and scrimp, others are talking about not being able to afford these nannies so is it fair they miss out on the care that we ae talikng about. I'm ananny and a mum. i could never afford to pay my wages to another nanny so we have no choice but to make alternative arrangemtnes. I'm lucky i can take DS with me but if i was in a job where i couldn't then i would also be in your situation

There does seem to be a group of people who have had children and now need childcare and need to work but seem to think their nanny does not have the same wants and needs as themselves.

I was thinking about this thread as loading the dishwasher and my thoughts were

I bet that companies wouldn't pay the rates they do if they could get away with it.....in fact whenever there is a change in employment law various bodies start shouting we'll be out of business if......the mothers who are talking about the costs of childcare as an excuse to pay low wages aren't very different....I think that if you were to go into one of these old Etonian mens clubs the conversation wouldn't be very different..these women get themselves pregnant and expect us to pick up the pieces and pay for it to, when they come back their more interested in their children than their work.......

it goes to show it is a very personal and private thing when it comes to choosing a nanny. Like some parents have said a good nanny is hard to find in some areas. If both nanny and family are happy and reach an agreement on the conditions of work and contract then who is anyone else to get involved in their decisions.
From this thread it shows that on some parents lists a good nanny comes first, what ever the cost. On others list the price of a nanny obviously is more important to them.
It's a sahme it had to get so heated but obviously strong feelings are involved on this topic for a good reason, after all we are talking about the most important things in our lives. Well my DS is to me!!

crunchie

'I am disgusted when parents don't offer market wages and good conditions, are their children less important than a posh hairdo or one dress'

Well actually in our case it's we'd be happy to pay great money for a great nanny irrespective of nationality, but can't afford to. Even if I go back to work I still won't be able to afford the posh hairdo or a posh frock... so not putting kids before retail therapy.

so I'm glad there are European nannies coming over who are a bit cheaper so I can afford it and give them a job whilst I go back to mine. And only because they're cheaper doesn't mean they're worse at what they do and that I'd take advantage or create bad working conditions! For the financially not so fortunate these 'Europeans' are a god (or who ever you believe in) sent.

I haven't read all teh postings on this thread and can only talk from experience as a mum who had a brilliant nanny.

My nanny was fantasic, she did everything for my girls and we still miss her. She was english and always did extra stuff that I didn't ask her to do. ie empty dishwasher, weekly shop etc. Yes I did say WEEKLY shop. In the end I used to just leave her a list, as she enjoyed doing it and asked if she could. I would NEVER have expected her to do this, and it was NEVER part of her job. Nor was working overtime for nothing (that other parents seem to do all the time). Personally I find that other parents used to abuse their nannies in a much worse way than expecting a clean house. I knew most nannies whose employers used to come home 1 - 2 hours late almost every day, also expect babysitting free of charge and overnighters with a token extra payment. To me this is bad, it assumes that nannies have no life of their own and that they are at your beck and call outside of official hours.

OK I wanted my nanny to tidy up (actually she told me she would) and she used to always have a gripe at DH who left things a mess for her. But I never asked her to work late and never took the piss.

I don't think it is an english, european thing I think it is common courtesy. I am disgusted when parents don't offer market wages and good conditions, are their children less important than a posh hairdo or one dress !!!

I think some of things said on both sites have been interesting with a capital I.

Penny, I'm going to Italy in 2/3 weeks.

I understand in Italy nannies are called babysitters and earn about the same money as here but often work 6 days a week like most Italians.

I am thinking of helping my friend initially. She runs a business teaching English to children. Like our French classes. I don't need to work for a while.

Hello Ladies, welcome to the newbies,I hope you all enjoy MN, and use it in a beneficial way.

Am concerned about some of the postings on this thread, and the way some personal and possible rascist comments have been made. Can we remember that this is a website which is for lively debate and discussion, but also for support?

I know I will have eyeballs rolling , but please read the mumsnet philosophy below, before you consider posting anything that may be contentious.

I thank you

"A word about our philosophy
The idea of mumsnet is that by pooling knowledge and experience, parents make the job of parenting easier. Please bear in mind that issues to do with raising children can be very sensitive and that everyone has the right to make their own choices when it comes to bringing up their kids. This is a discussion forum and we ask you to respect other people's right to their opinions, even if you disagree with them. Our policy is to keep intervention to a minimum and let the conversation flow. Having said that we will remove postings that are obscene, racist, or contain personal attacks. Please bear in mind that we all know how difficult this parenting business can be, and if there's one thing all of us could do with, it's some moral support. "

also - if they're all such fantastic nannies, and therefore obviously employed - why are they on the computer at the moment instead of looking after someone's 'precious charge'????

Personaly if I could afford a nanny then I'd be quite happy for them to let my child watch TV for a short time each day. When DS1 gets home from nursery he's exhausted and all he really wants to do is 'veg' for a little while. I've 'tried' doing things with him and he doesn't want to - and therefore its in 'his' best interests to sit down and do nothing for 3/4hr or so...........

Can't believe that thread on that site - words astound me!!

"Beetroot
It is starnge they there has been so msny assumptions by apparently 'well' educated people. I dont think anyone has been asking nanny's to do menial tasks on this thread. It i has been mostly about euro nannies ..."
It has been about Nannies doing housework as that was the given reason by some parents here as to why they hired a European nanny instead.

"If the work wasn't there and they weren't wanted then they wouldn't be 'coming over here' and stealing local jobs as it were."
But I think it's been established that the reason there is a demand is because they are cheaper, not because they are better. Which proves us nannies points all along.

MaryP0p1 where are you moving too? Will you continue childcare?
I am hoping to move out of this country in the next few years, I have nearly 10 years nanny expierence so by the time I moved It will proabably be over 12 years so judging by what Mrbig d said I should be able to get into Australia easier. But frankly I wouldn't mind doing another proffesion if I had to.

found it... nannyjobs thread

gotta love the

'Bunch of half wits some of them. Care more about their dishwashers being emptyed and their knickers washed than their childrens welfare.'

Istrongly object being called a half wit I'm a total wit atm due to 3.5 years of sleep deprivation!

and how dare she say I care more for my dishwasher than my kids! Obviously kids come first!!!