Am beginning to hate my Au-pair

Oh MajorStress your poor Mum, neither of you deserve that. Hope the tests go OK.

Immigration grilled my mum when she came over from the US last month-she stupidly said she was going to babysit her grandchildren for a month-instead of just on holiday. Got the third degree-what was I going to do when she left? She mispronounced au pair and they pounced on that and went on and on.
What is ironic is that she was actually born here and left in 1961, and as such is a British subject, just hasn't maintained both passports. She didn't know to mention that either, or bring the old one. It's very confusing and they are getting more and more horrible-Orwellian

she went back on monday and got a blood clot in her brain on the flight-paralysed on one side for over 5 hours over the atlantic- luckily it cleared but now having lots of tests at home, this is my fault-or is it more fuel for my hatred of my ex-AP, which is what induced me to bring her over and work her too hard in the first place????

I was trying to get a Bulgarian au pair at the beginning of this year. Unfortunately, her visa was denied on suspicion of immigrant intent.

I wrote to my MP about it, and have recently had a reply from the Home Office minister. They actually did look at her file at the consulate in Sofia and they said that she said she would definitely be returning to Bulgaria after the year because her employer was giving her a leave of absence in order to perfect her English - and with perfect English she would more than double her salary (this is a credible situation). Unfortunately, this was all word of mouth - she didn't take a letter from her employer confirming this. With just her word for it, the consulate could not accept this evidence and assumed the worst.

I'm quite cross at the au pair agency - they should have coached her on how to get a visa as it's not totally common sense to those who have no knowledge or experience of immigration rules. I feel that I could have done a better job myself given that I do know a lot about UK immigration (have a foreign hubby).

I would say to anyone who wants to get an au pair that requires a visa to not be afraid of the process, but just to make sure that the girl will satisfy immigration rules before offering her a job. Put yourself in the shoes of the Entry Clearance Officer, basically - and expect written evidence where necessary.

Yes - the whole visa situation is a bit off putting, However, I have discussed this with the girl from Macedonia and said a job offer would be pending sucessful visa. She seems to think that the application is granted within days? (I think i will have to check this out) she appears to be clued up said she has researched the requirements ect.

So far she is a likely candidate, and seems keen, asks good relevant questions and is clear about duties, and her expectations seem to be realistic ( on paper anyway, could be clear as mud in her mind). but I have been here before!!

I thinks I need to do a bit of research to find out more about Macedonia - only really know a bit political stuff. BTW - thanks for visa info.

Anyone had an AP from Macedonia ? - sorry for going off the trail a bit.

I think that is wise. Though the Canadians Aussies and Kiwis (I pursued many of those) can come in without too much bother, most seem to be pretty serious nannies (i.e want a big wage AND to eat you out of house and home as well) or are very young-though maybe that is an advantage in some ways. You seem to get more serious people from eastern europe or other places, who are motivated to learn a language (lots of English teachers really NEED this experience professionally) and at the same time can earn some money, with any luck. Those who can already speak well enough (in their own opinion) have another agenda- to do things like singing or sports (or boyfriend) in their spare time, which may or may in not fit in with your needs. And then there are the dossers from any country, whose parents are trying to lever them out of their nests-I had one of those!

What a mess... Think I'll stick to EU citizens for my hunt.

Hi Tanzie, She wasn't actually coming to work as an au pair but as a student to live with us for free in exchange for babysitting for pocket money (this is allowed up to a modest limit and if they do a lot of hours of classes at a recognised college). We didn't need much help at that point, and it was all perfectly legit, but they rejected her on the grounds that they didn't believe her and classed her as an economic migrant with no intention to return home, but that wasn't actually true. The English school told me that they have had extraordinary difficulty suddenly cropping up in the past year at the visa stage for non-EU nationals, no matter how legit the prospective students are. She was also told, illegally, that if she tried to appeal as is her right, the embassy would make sure that she never got a visa, ever. So, we think the coming election was to blame.

To satisfy my nosiness, I've had a quick look at the Home Office website and Kazakh nationals are not allowed to come to the UK as au pairs. But Macedonians are (wasn't someone thinking of getting a Macedonian au pair?).

Well, to be frank, Majorstress, I'd have queried why someone as well qualified as your Kazakh and with such good English that she did translating work wanted to come to UK as an au pair (I used to do immigration work - very briefly ). I have no idea what the rules are on au pairs at the moment - eg where they can come from and the age range (used to be 17-27 I think). Maybe the Home Office website can help, so that a potential au pair doesn't get kicked back on simply being too old or from a country that's not on the au pair list?

yes - I don't think I will be too hasty turning down the the other applicants especially when considering the visa situation.

I think I will just keep my options open - although there doesn't seem to be much out there at the moment except lots of inexperienced nothing really to offer, but wants loads of cash, and stern looking strict 45 year old 'scary lady'( remark made by 5 year old when photo was enlarged on the computer) and lots of couples - handyman and Au- Pair, goodness know where i'd put them or afford to keep them...the search goes on

The anti-visa climate in non-EU embassies wrecked my first choice AP back in October and left me really stuck, and that led to me panicking and taking on my useless one. They turned down a qualified English teacher who translates for US oil companies in Kazakhstan-I'm still in touch with her actually, we struck up a real relationship somehow. They said she was an economic migrant posing as someone who wants to perfect her accent. I had already paid for a full-on English course at a very good school for her, and she has a job to go back to and a much-loved widowed Mum with a shop who expects her back in one year to help-but no. Now her company is going to arrange it for her, but she has to go where they send her. She wanted to stay with an English-speaking family in London rather than a student hostel.

Thanks Majorstress - Never thought about this.

uh-oh watch out for the visa snafu!!! If she says anything wrong on the application or at the interview if there is one, for example indicates she might want to settle down here for good one day, they might refuse-they are all on alert to keep people out as immigration is an election issue. It takes time to get visas too, at least weeks I am told. Maybe you should accept her now dependent on visas and good references, so the paperwork can get underway-you can keep looking (she will too don't worry) and you then have some others to turn to if something goes wrong on the visa front (or any other front) in the meantime. The majority of people do not seem take this seriously as a job and if she gets a better offer she might just disappear. Many have done that with me.

Majorstress - not quite finished yet a few more possibilities have surfaced amongst my e-mails, but i must draw i line under it soon, as AP leaving date is get closer. One Ap (nothing dynamic) asked for between 200-300 Euros a week. I asked her if it was a typing error? she never replied.

Yes I think 1. seems good so far, i have never had an AP from Macedonia before and she will need a visa and will not, (I think )have free English classes- I will need to discuss this.

Thank you ladies - all suggestions welcomed and good ones too. I want to be fair and sympathetic but the childrens welfare is also a priority.

Actually passed by the park earlier and was going to suggest that and also the library. She was always great at this sort of thing.

In fairness we always try and leave the house has clean and as tidy as possible. This morning just gave her a few small things to do including the childrens ironing but I think we need to have another little chat.

List as follows:

Put house alarm on and close windows when leaving the house.

top up the fuel used on the car at the end of the week and not to return in on empty ( car for personal use)

Hoover, washing machines all appliances please use with care. Any breakages - please let tell me so I can replace it or get it fixed.

friends are very welcome when we at work or out - Please introduce us to new friends beforehand.

We prefer Au pair to eat early evening, with myself and children during the week when on duty, I try to cook meals every one likes - suggestions welcome.( it really irritates when AP'S say ' I will only eat with you depending on what it is, then raid the fridge)

Weekends If AP chooses to eat with us, help tiding up with myself and the children is appreciated. ( this one really annoys me, Our current AP always appears for roast dinners and puddings, but never lifts a finger after)

Any special events and exams; put the date on the calender to give us lots of notice.

There are other things i mention is telephone and not using up the credits on cell phone that I put on ( for emergencies) Ap usually tops up for personal use.

i think your nanny may need a bit of morale boost tell her the things she does well,(activities she did prior to pregnancy). Insist she takes the kids for an outing afterschool e.g picnic in the park = less stress for her + change of scene.

To start with you could remove items that don't need ironing then she may get the meaasge and use her time more effectively- i do this with our AP otherwise she would still be ironing when i arrive home.

As for morning sickness - yes I agree she does have to get on with it. I had it bad with the twins but tried to be discrete about being sick at work but I didn't work at my best ability - my toddler did a good impression of me throwing up!

mishmash- I have every sympathy with pregnancy sickness, I had a horrible time right the way through my first one. Mostly it only lasts a few weeks, I am told. I was unable to move around much, to bend or to get down on the floor, without throwing up, and once it started I couldn't stop. There was no way I could have looked after kids actively, luckily my boss could let me do lots of admin and paperwork-that's not an option for her and you. It sounds to me like she can manage ironing and probably likes it, it's pretty easy and soothing to some. I think maybe you could work out a numbered prioritized list of the minimum jobs you would be satisfied with in your nanny, and go over it with her to make it clear that you are not trying to criticize her, but to find a good compromise. If you want her to do other jobs more, you will have to put them at the top of the list and ask her to please tick them off in order when she has done them, and tell her she doesn't have to get right to the bottom if she can't manage it some days. Put ironing and anything else you have noticed she still does willingly at the bottom of the priorities (or reduce or farm it out for a while; Shop around, that ironing is costing you a lot in several ways!!!), . How about giving her one or two new habitual outings if possible, like telling her she has to take them out on certain specific days to something you have "just discovered"? Then it won't matter much whether she does it grumpily or cheerfully, the kids will be happy and this might help distract her from her misery too (don't tell her this, it might be too irritating, but she might notice by herself that it helps) i.e. to the park on Monday and Weds, to the library on Thurs for their storytime or whatever. Even a friend's house for a weekly playdate-maybe you can blame it on some other mum you are in cahoots with. My new nanny was shown on day one by me how to go to the local pool with 2 year old for parent toddler session then we walked directly to school in time for pick-up. Also mine has been told not to do housework apart from picking up while in charge of the kids (I saw the light). (the only thing that helped me a bit with the sickness was, bizarrely, chewing gum!)

Celtic66-the one behind door #1 sounds best so far. Have you finished looking? The one I actually took on rang 1.5 hours before the last one I had scheduled to see after 4 days of interviewing (time was up then)-she easily blew all the rest away in every respect. I now can't believe that before I saw her, I was willing to accept 2 of the other 4 I had interviewed face to face-they didn't fulfil many of my criteria, but as I said, time was up if I wanted an overlap with my parents who were doing the school and nursery runs.

Celtic66 - what is on your list?

My nanny is currently driving me round the twist. Some of you may know she got married just over two months ago and is pregnant and before anyone starts having a go - I do not have a problem with this. She was off sick for two weeks - fair enough. We had a meeting with her before she came back to establish that she was fit to resume her duties - more for her own sake than ours - as we had someone lined up to step into the breach.

She said she would give it a week and let us know how she was. Every morning and evening during that first week I asked her how she was and every answer was "fine". I thought it would be an idea if she gave me a little written account at the end of the week as to how she coped and whether she was able to manage.

May I add that during that week I just left her a few chores to do so that she wouldn't wear herself out and told her to make sure she took rest breaks. Well at the end of the week I got a a litany as to what she did and listed every chore - most of which I didn't expect or ask her to do. At all times I have told her that I don't mind doing what she can't but she keeps doing it. I felt that she thought I was questioning her!

I totally agree with ironing - in that not everything in the house needs ironing - but again she insists on ironing everything.

But how do I get this across to her when she won't listen.

Her pregnancy was unexpected so she hasn't been happy about that but knows that she can't change things now. The other thing is she is moping around the house all the time. I have told her that when the children are there she has to make some effort to be cheerful as I don't think it is good for them - in fact I don't think it is good for her either.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to how I can

(a)
get her to listen and do only things I ask her to do - which are for her benefit and the benefit of her unborn baby

(b)
motivate her into putting a bit of a pep in her step when the kids are around and to do some activities with them

Even my youngest keeps asking if "x will be in today" and when I ask her she replies "cos she is always sick".

Yes I know she is suffering from Morning Sickness but how many thousands of women suffer from this and just get on with it - I don't mean to sound harsh! I have actually spoken to loads of people who have suffered who were holding full time jobs and they have commented that they just had to get on with it.

Sounds like you have had a terrible time major stress with Au pairs. She sounded dreadful epecially with the missing/broken stuff.

I have three possible Au Pair candidates lined up for when mine leaves and hoping to have an handover with the Old Au pair. I'm being really cautions but it really is a hard decision all very similar

1st Macedonia - has worked with pre schoolers, good education, and is willing to do all duties in list and has good English.

2nd from Canada - been Summer AP before, very young, seems keen but I detect some dislike to babysitting ( I think this one is out of the frame)

3rd Cezech - oldest at 24 finished her education from a big family, speaks fluent English no working experience of children except for babysitting but very willing,
can relate to big family situation.

I think on this occassion I may include some basic house rules but it sounds harsh on paper, I usually discuss this in casual manner when situation arise. How does anyone do this?

There's no doubt about it, I have really reacted badly to this au pair fiasco-I think I am goiing to need counselling or something!!!! I just felt sick when I saw that Inertia had sent me an email from home, very cheerful about all the interviews she is going for (with no written ref from me at least!) and some photos she had taken-I right away deleted all but the one she wasn't in! Got unfairly annoyed too because she made my email account overflow while I was too busy to chekc it over the weekend. And have already earmarked the little keepsake she gave us, for the charity shop-I can't bear to look at it. Finding lots of stuff is missing, presumed broken (or stolen? what WAS in that giant parcel she sent home?), crockery, tupperware lids OR bases, and new kid's clothing. On the plus side, the kids haven't turned a hair about her departure, yesterday I got "Who is (Inertia's real name)?" when dd1 wanted to know who had stamped dd2s name on all her pjs (Inertia liked my permanent ink stampers and ruined a lot of stuff one day while I was at work). DDs HAVE enjoyed (and noticed!) the presence of the grandparents, associated visits from distant relatives, and had a really fun time with the new nanny Nirvana last week-fingers crossed that works out-but it is SOOO much better for all of us not to have her living in!!!!!! I have become a totally neurotic mother, shame I was't choosy enough at the outset to realise I couldn't cope with a dud AP and how high the risk of getting one is.

Oh majorstress you do seem so down. I think the problem is that you have been ?scarred? by inertia, as I was by my previous ap. It was so so hard to readjust to my new wonderful ap and I kept on thinking I had to do everything, as I did before. When I realised I could put my faith and confidence in her, I stepped off. I think that?s what you need to do. Yes your dh is a wonderful father so let him do that. Give yourself some valuable ?me? time and let your new ap form a loving relationship with your 2 dds (as mine has done). Okay I may get jealous but what?s worse ? me shouting at them all the time (as I did with the old ap) or them having one more person who loves them to bits. I look forward to your name-change to ?majorchill?. Take care and please CAT me if you want to.

HI ChicPea Thanks for your support too . I am not a suitable employer for this sort of job at all (either recruiting, managing or sacking) but needs must. I got a new live-out nanny who is great so far but it is only day 3-but doing things, that obviously need doing, off her own bat seems to be the norm rather than the exception. Also I have come to accept that no one can or will help me much, apart from mumsnet, even DH who is otherwise an exemplary dad and a high-level manager at work too unlike myself. My main concern now is management of myself, since that is all I can do in reality anyway-anger and mood management, prioritising my health and happiness at the expense of current cashflow and sometimes other people's fun. I was brought up the only child, unconfident, lonely, bored, shy and retiring and that legacy won't change overnight, or maybe ever. My confidence has been further reduced by the whole children/childcare experience. And you are right, it has toughened me coming through this fire (and still sprinting!), which has been far worse for me than a mere 7 months of severe sciatica, with the growing observation that holidays and possibly paid employment might be over at 42, then shattered disc and emergency surgery-pah, so what!? Childcare (and the kids themselves) are much more gruesome.

au pairs can get very lonely if told to "bugger off" as one poster said they told their au pair to do on their day off.

MajorStress, I have read one of your threads where you were complaining about the AP and it went on and on and I couldn't believe your situation went from bad to worse. BUT I saw you had lots of support from other MumsNetters so I didn't post. I hoped you would get things sorted. And reading this thread it looks as though you have. Hurray!!

However you said that your interviews lasted an hour and a half and they just didn't get the hint. This worries me as it seems, and forgive me for what I am about to say, that you are not the one in charge and are timid to say something. Please please please take control from the very beginning. I beg you. I have had experiences with maternity nurses, nannies, au pairs, housekeepers, and I used to give them the benefit of doubt to my detriment as they then took advantage. I am an only child and non confrontational......but not anymore....... because I now know that I have to be the one in control and if somebody is taking the p*ss, stepping out of line, has an attitude, etc, it ain't gonna get better.

I advertised in The Lady Magazine for a Housekeeper/Mothers Help and aged by 10 years from the number of calls I took but with the experience - some of it bad - I have had I am a stronger person/employer now that knows what I want.

The very best of luck to you!! It's not easy.