Help me decide what sort of childcare to go for in September .... longish post

True indeed tankie but by the time she has realised I am letting her slope off at 10am every Friday instead of 12, and bunging her extra leave days here and there out of the blue, I think she will feel it's not too bad a deal.

£20,627 Starting salary for a qualified teacher
£24,908 National average wage

Um, beg to differ there, it's live in and has six weeks' leave instead of 4.8 weeks, so it's well above the minimum wage. She'd be in the house anyway during the babysitting, as she would live here with us, and the kids would be asleep, so it's not the most challenging task in the world.

As a guideline, rent in our area for a shared house would be £400-£600 a month (probably with a smaller room in a less nice house for that actually - that's what my daughter was spending for a crappy student house last year around here), and food is probably £25 week minimum, so if you do the arithmetic properly, she would be on the equivalent of about £23,000-£25,000 gross before tax, which is more than a teacher with a degree and PGCE would start on, for very similar hours of 'directed time' as they call it.

Per hour it works out at the equivalent of £10.41. Bear in mind there is no commuting time or related costs here as well.

I'm not saying you are being thick, but I think you're confusing gross and net income and also the real life benefit in kind of board and keep and so on. It's actually one reason why I think nannies should start being encouraged to negotiate gross salaries rather than net ones as if it was the 1920s, because I think they look at other people's salaries and think they're very hard done by, whereas it's actually not badly paid when you add it all up.

The other thing about the nursery, actually, is that even though it was a good one, and I am still in touch with some of the staff and we text each other in a friendly way, I hated the bit at the end of the day at pickup time when they said "Can we have a little word?" and went on to tell me all about ds2's infractions of nursery protocol, little fights, or whatever. Also being told off for bringing the wrong number of spare pants and so on.

I used to feel I was being told off personally and on edge the whole time as to what would have gone wrong during the day.

I had forgotten that. It's probably a by product of institutionalising the children. Ds2 actually tried to escape once, and I wonder if he felt like I did actually. I put it down to him being 2 and a bit naughty, but maybe there was more to it ...

The nursery we used when ds 2 was little is lovely, but it is three miles in the opposite direction to work through urban traffic, and opens at 8.30, whereas I have already left for work at 7.45. I come back between 6.30 and 7 and the nursery closes at 5.30. Anyway even if it was open that long, I think it would be a bit soviet putting poor ds3 in there for that long each day.

I worked very locally until recently but was made redundant 2 years ago, hence the long commute now, which I bitterly resent. It feels very unfair.

Yeah, in France they would probably give me the Legion d'Honneur for this many kids and this much hassle. In the UK there is always an air of perpetual surprise that children exist at all.

blueshoes, I wish I was at tough as you. I am clearly a big softie and it has done me no favours.

I used to live in London in a very desirable area - however I have always found it awkward and disruptive getting rid of indifferent au pairs. They seem to be quite random and it's hard to tell who would be good. I am exhausted after 20 years of this childcare grief, hence trying to find a nanny now!!

Blondes, I am going to have to open another bottle because it appears Tankie and I drank all the virtual wine.

blueshoes, I think the main factor here is that I work 60 miles away from my home, and would be using a workplace nursery, so that makes the whole thing a problem, if for example the baby needs collecting during the day from nursery because of illness. If we were all just a few miles from each other it might be different.

Tankie, you sound brill too.

That was my thinking - it's too far for the baby in the car twice a day.

I had one AP once who was great with babies but she was 24 and very experienced, and there was more often than not one of us around the house during the day at that time.

I wouldn't normally leave a baby or toddler with an au pair for longer than a hairdressing appointment, because there's just too much going on, and they haven't developed a maternal instinct yet, which nannies often have.

I think the point about nanny networks is a very good one - they are more established than APs, who are very transient. I really like the idea of my nanny (ooh, I am getting a thrill just saying that! I am going to be a proper grown up nanny employer with proper childcare that doesn't go wrong all the time!) hosting/attending coffee mornings and so on, so there's a bit of friendship and continuity in the daytime for both nanny and baby, plus backup of course, just like us mums do it.