God, my au pair/mother's help just kicked my 5 year old!

I pity you* greatly

regardless if how it was meant, it was bloody offensive.

as a black person, I should not have to come on here+read shit like that, it absolutely appalled me+I will not let it go.

I took great offense at it+if you can't understand that, then I pity greatly!

paid breaks??
whats that, as a nanny, I don't even get an actual break lol

blimey. most people (except self employed) in most jobs get paid for their breaks. I would be very cross if I didn't in the jobs I have done. Its not lazy to think you should. Obviously a lot of mean and greedy employers will exploit foreign wokers who have lower expectations.

I've just scanned through this thread... and it reminded me of my very first teacher of primary school. She was a black lady from Jamaica called Mrs JArvis and she only taught me for 6 months (I started in Jan then moved up to the next class the following Sept). I remember her because she was kind and motherly and I and all the other children loved her. The teacher in my next class well she was white and blond, can't remember her name but she was horrid and nasty and clearly hated kids
Shame on you Kittywise for judging someone on the colour of their skin and for trying to uphold nonsensical stereotypes.
I have some friends who I did AN classes with, we are all white middle class, degree educated people from very similar lines of work yet we all have VERY different ideas on child rearing.
So can you not extrapolate to how fundamentally stupid your sweeping statements on black people can be? If me and my white friends can have different views and outlooks, surely the same should and must be thought of to people who happen to have black skin?

well said cakeordeath - also, well said earlier by tankie!

I have to say, that I am frankly appalled that as actual, real life, non child kicking, child carer black people, our views have been totally ignored.

I've just read through this thread and it's an eyeopener for me as a fairly new poster.

God almighty! As a black woman, I sometimes think I am being "oversensitive" as one poster so charmingly put it, and then I read things like this, and I am just openmouthed at the level of casual racism displayed.

Just to englighten you:

1)It's "racism", not "racsism".

2)Black people come from different countries, cultures, backgrounds. We are not all one homogeneous group who kick children.

3)You are bang out of order, lady. And should acknowledge that to all those you have offended.

4. I hope you raise your awareness of racial prejudice and stereotypes. Read a book or something. Because, if your kids are mixed race, someone will, at some stage, throw exactly this sort of ill-informed rubbish at them and then you'll know what it is like from the other side.

I fully expect you to ignore this as you have all the other "black" posters who have contributed to this thread. Shame on you. Really.

It is as ridiculous to extrapolate from the long term unemployed to all English people, as it is from one or two British cleaners kittywise has employed to all British cleaners.
Obviously some British/English people have poor work attitudes, but it is quite possible they may be concentrated in mygreatauntgriselda4christmas's caseload, or kittywise's shortlists.

When we were in NYC the children went to a school with many Korean children. Should I say all Korean children speak nicely because when the children were electing reps to their school council, there were several Korean children who gave good stump speeches? Of course not. Those kids speak well. I have no knowledge of the millions of other Korean children out there, just as kittywise cannot know about all the other British cleaners, or mygreatauntgriselda4christmas about all English workers.

Very lazy thinking.

Deffo drop the ironing

• I am allergic to ironing actually

Kitty totally agree with you about English attitudes to hard work

Part of my job is getting unemployed people into work and find that migrants/new communities are really keen to find work and are happy to work hard - its a pride thing and they expect to work. There is a whole residue of people who have grown up in the UK who don't work, have never worked, their parents have never worked etc - they literally don't know what "work" is.

They would never consider "menial" jobs (cleaning/driving a bus etc) - we worked with several bus companies who have to recruit in Poland as Engish people aren't prepared to drive buses

Just wanted to add that my DCs' nanny (she lives in) is from Senegal (i.e. she's black) and my main bugbear with her is that she's too soft on DS1. So the whole idea that all West Africans are overly strict is wrong.

BUT, having lived in West Africa, I think it is true to say that there is a stronger propensity for families to use old fashioned methods of discipline** - rightly or wrongly - and certainly, corporal punishment is still used in many schools from what i have heard. In any case, you rarely see naughty children or hear tantrums.

** By that, I don't mean that kids are beaten to within an inch of their lives or anything like that.

I actually would not use race or nationality as a means to select childcare. There's good'uns and bad'uns in every country and that certainly includes this one. I had a laugh to myself when i read that someone would only used Slovak au pairs or something like that. My friend certainly wouldn't - hers ended up shagging her husband....

Perhaps, good English nannies are hard to find because any worth their salt are probably working for vast amounts of money in the States or Middle East, not the relative pittance they'd get here.

In essence, the aim of most au pairs is not to pursue a career in childcare but to secure themselves a place to live while they learn English/earn money to send to their families or whatever.

Anyway, good luck Kittywise, with finding yourself another nanny. You need it with 6 kids - don't know how you cope!

Totally drop the ironing! Can't remember last time I had the iron out (possibly for a linen dress in the summer). DP does a few shirts for work of a Sunday night. And that's it.

Just don't see the need to do kids clothes, sheets, tea towels, jeans, etc. Just hang them out to dry a bit quicker - they'll be fine.

Juule, it the fact that based on her (presumably relatively limited) experience of employing english people, she states she will not even interview an English applicant. If a larger employer based their recruitment policies on this sort of attitude, there would be outcry, and they would rightly end up in an industrial tribunal.

Not sure how that's a sweeping generalisation, yearofthecat. If that is Kitty's experience of the people she employed, then that's her experience. Of course, it doesn't mean that EVERY English person is useless and EVERY foreign person is great, just the ones in Kitty's employ in her opinion (might be just right for someone else).

By kittywise on Fri 12-Dec-08 07:12:54

As I said Every English person I have ever employed has been very disappointing EVERY foreign person has been great. I am now going on my experience and will not even interview an English applicant.

My experience of 10 years of employing people has shown EVERY SINGLE TIME that English person was as good as useless and I've always kicked myself for giving them "another chance".

Still making sweeping generalisations then.

Hi Kitty
can't be bothered to read the whole thing, but i wish you luck in sorting out your childcare woes. I can't believe how quickly the thread turned into something very unpleasant and how judgemental others have been. We all have said things in the past that was probably not phrased in the best way - we don't need to get crucified for that, esp. when you've had a bad day.

Am also sorry how it then all became judgemental about how you lead your life - we all do the best we can for our families for our individual circumstances. If you had a cook, cleaner, driver, and a nanny - rest assured, some parents (like myself) would not immediately jump to the conclusion that you are not raising your children yourself or raising them properly. As i said, different strokes for different folks, no one is in the right to say their way is better than the other.

Best of luck, i hope you are able to get the best combo of help so you achieve the quality of life for you and the kids that you want

morning kitty - I currently have the best ever cleaner who is english but the one before that was the worst and she was English as well.

For the past 5 years I have had APs but haven't had one since the beginning of the year when she did a moonlight flit on me. The 2 before that were dreadful so 3 in 3 months like you.

My dh works 60 hours a week but doesn't earn much so I am the major breadwinner and have to work. With 3 kids and no AP I do wonder how I manage along with a 3 hour commute every day. And this "me" time happens once a month when dh gets Saturday off.

But I do cope and am loving having the house to myself. I give dd1 (10) £1 everytime she empties the dishwasher (queue slave labour attack!), I give £1 to dd2 (7) everytime she tidied ds (2) bedroom. But my standards have dropped - forget about ironing, hoovering, as long as it's tidy before I leave for work them I am happy.

My df has 6 Lo's and works 6 hours a day without a cleaner ap and I can really relate to the amount of extra washing housework cooking etc - 3 is bad enough .

Of course culture is an important part of how someone behaves, but culture is much more than the colour of your skin or the country you come from. Personally I think the comment about British cleaners is as offensive as the comment about black people, because both are utterly unjustified. That it came at the end of what must have been a horrible day is no excuse, because it is at times when we are angry or upset that our true prejudices come out. That's not to say we don't all have them, of one sort or another, but it is important to recognize them, identify what it is that makes you uncomfortable, think about whether that is actually reasonable and try to move on. Otherwise you are dismissing huge chunks of the population for little or no reason. I have had nannies, but chosen against the live in route, because it is very intrusive. But then having someone who is helping you everyday has to be fairly intrusive too.

I really think employing an agency to come and clean your house (my mother has two people do a blitz once a week, and that seems to work very well) might be a better approach for you.

I also think you should reconsider having an aupair. Having someone come and live in your house, and effectively become part of your family who you have never met it surely a very high risk strategy. Of course this one was beyond the pale, with the kicking, and you were obviously not happy before that in any case. Why not look for a local mother's help or nanny? Then you can interview them in advance, with no need for sweeping generalisations, and much lower risk.