APs and staying out late - any advice?

If her work is not affected by staying out then I think you have no right to tell her she is not allowed out past a certain time. If you had stated this in the rules before she came to live with you then you might have found that she wouldn't have come.
I work as an AP and last night I was in my room but wasn't asleep until 5am but then worked at 7. The night before I didn't get in until 7am but I had been asleep elsewhere all night.

Ok, ok, so shoot me.

I can totally understand why you'd not want your AP to stay out until 3am, might disturbe household or her mood the next day. I'd impliment some rules on that one.

As for the arranged staying out over night, why is there such an issues with that? If she worked in any other job her bosses wouldn't know. So long as her job preformance is not effected and you know so you can lock up, I really do not see a problem. I think you are being unreasonable to the poor girl, if she lets you know before she leaves that she is staying out!

Hi english, glad it has worked out. You did the right thing.

You could always try for a new aupair (psssst, I try to avoid French aupairs, oh, nothing really except my first aupair was French and she never turned up). But it can be hit and miss, as we all know.

I was thinking since you are looking for help during your maternity leave and need good driving, apart from a nanny who will be costly, you couldconsider a mother's help (generally live out). You probably would not require sole charge care of the baby but more someone to amuse your older child(ren) and help out with cooking and housework and drive. So a mother's help is more flexible. Perhaps advertise in your local papers, or gumtree? Do you use a local cleaner who is happy to do add ons for a short period.

ES that has to be a relief. I know we are in approximately the same area and both suddenly without APs, which is unfortunate for me as your hours and rates are much more favourable than mine. Such a nice employer as you shouldn't have a problem.

so she has left this evening - we paid for her to fly home this wednesday - first available flight back - although she is planning on finding another family. I had a quick look at her profile on AuPair World and it is hilarious - so many falsities the only things it doesn;t say is i have an eating disorder and am unstable - i do feel sorry for the girl as i would hate to go through this BUT she should have let us know and is defiantely not AP material.
Anyway there is another AP locally who has her own 'annex' and she is friends with her so has gone there until Wed. We told her she could stay etc. but she did not want to - fine by me. We paid her £150 + airfare she did kind of work this week and i felt i should not part on bad terms
Anyone got an AP available?

As for the French model, our AP contract says gross incompetence is grounds for immediate dismissal.

MN won't let me read to end of thread, keeps sending me back to pg 2 for some reason. So, someone might already have said this, but my main problem with an AP that came in at 4am on a fairly regular basis would be security. OP mentioned that she uses a latch; that latch would be off for most of the night. If the house were turned over, the insurance would be invalidated. Our house rules stipulate back by 12 weeknights. We know when APs return because dogs bark. Another reason I don't want it to be in the early hours!

I agree with the others. I know it will be stressful having to tell her and making sure that she just takes her own belongings etc but it has to be done. The relief of not having a stressful-to-live-with person in your home anymore is tremendous.

Good luck with it all.

I'm just seconding blue, dad et al. You have no idea how she'll react, and quite frankly you've done more than enough for her. Not turning up for the driving lesson just about says it all, she has no respect for you.
Please don't try and find her another family, would you really want someone else to put up with this?

Blueshoes is right, as is dad; yes she must go, and no, you can't recommend her to another family.

ES - Blue has it 100% right, for your own health's sake she has to go immediately, how many second chances does she get, by reckoning she is down to about her fourteenth. Also don't see how you could help her find another family - what would you say to them?

Hi english, I am sorry your AP has had such a troubled homelife but you are not a half way house. I am putting my head in my hands in despair on your behalf reading about her.

It will actually be tricky to get rid of her as I can imagine she would not want to go back to her home situation. But it is not working for you big big time, particularly her misleading you on the driving front which makes her a non-starter on that basis alone.

Out of interest, why is she out so much if she has only just arrived in the UK? Is she already planning her escape and is only using you as a staging post in the meantime, hence the half hearted attempts to improve.

You don't want to waste any more time with her. Immediate dismissal will cost you but it is the safest and most secure way of doing it, esp since you only know her for 2 weeks and she could be unstable.

I would just tell her it is not working and pay her 1-2 week's pocket money and (this is up to you) lodger's rent to stay in your area (ideally you should have called up in advance to ensure a room is available) or airfare home, whichever is more, give her reasonable time to pack, and chauffeur her to the room/airport pronto. Take the housekeys off her immediately on notice and don't leave the house in the meantime.

I am embarrassed to be so harsh - I am prepared to be flamed. But if you feel you have had enough time to have a good enough handle on her character and mental health, you could give her more time to find another family whilst living with you. Because you cannot give her a good reference, you cannot help her to find a new family.

english -if you have had a chat and things arent any better, then get rid of her

your idea to get a nanny in for a month or so sounds good - an AP shouldnt have sole charge of children under 3, so if you want some help with your new baby once born - esp if you are having a c section and will find lifting/driving hard/not allowed for 6 weeks then a nanny will be the ideal solution till you are back on your feet

thanks for all the advice - the lesson was with an instructor and she didn't turn up. I think the main problem is after talking with her that she has come here to get away from MANY problems back in France - her father is an abusive alcoholic, her so-called BF is just using her for sex and she only likes him because he is rich. She has done lots of modelling in the past and is spending a min of 2 hrs working out (not just at the gym but actually doing exercise) plus she is only eating breakfast of natural yoghurt, no lunch and then veg for dinner. she sleeps when she is not working out and wears a bobble hat and scarf around the house all the time.
We sat down and spoke with her and told her that she had it easy and that we only gave her minimum hrs. she said she knew - listened and took it all in. So we went out y'day - she said she would sweep the floor, tidy her bedroom and bathroom - we came home this morning - she is out still which is not a problem for me BUT the floor has STILL not been swept, the heating & emersion hot water was left on constant, 6 lights left on, food left on top of freezer (she obviuosly got something out and out things on top whilst doing it and forgot to put back), toast still in toaster, bin over-flowing, dishes on work surface not in dishwasher, bedroom -OMG i just put my head around the door - you have neve seen anything like it - it really annoys me because she has gorgeous furniture, lovely linen & curtains etc. - a new laptop and NO RESPECT - i just feel that the last week has been nothing but a moaning session from us - can you pls do this, you need to be thinking about that etc. - when she comes home today we have decided to help her find anothe family - she is a lovely girl but just not right for our family - i am having c-section in 6 weeks and need someone reliable to 'help' and to 'drive' the school/nursery run - i am thinking about a nanny for a month - we have had nannies b4 so OK with that. However, we have also had AP's b4 - never any probs until last 2! think my luck has run out

An aupair is a young adult, usually in her late teens or freshly out. She is often living outside her family home for the first time. The host family is in loco parentis to a certain extent.

Therefore, the dynamics with an aupair are different from with a nanny. A nanny is adult, an employee, a professional who is expected to perform her job with minimal guidance. An aupair needs a lot more handholding and care, almost like a teenage niece come to stay. Hence, I will need to be more specific in setting limits, partly due to her youth and partly due to her inexperience. It is the sort of role that she can expect me to give her a lot more guidance than a nanny will be expected to get. She will need it.

The difficulty with saying that an aupair is still bright and ready the next day to perform her duties whatever time she goes to bed the previous day is that in my household, and I suspect in others where both parents WOHM, I am not around to actually see how she performs her duties during the day. So even if she is up on time, how do I know if she is fully alert when in charge of my children? If her attention is not on the road during the school run, it is not a risk I am prepared to take with a young person if she is late home night after night.

The odd late night with prior notice is fine, but anything which makes me question whether she is chronically sleep deprived would result in a 'chat' and some limits.

An au pair is NOT an employee, despite what several posters have said. A nanny is, that's why she is paid her more and the employer is liable for her maternity pay and so on.
I am not defending the OP AP's behaviour, just pointing out a fact.

Remembering she is not an employee gives a more fruitful way of solving the problems. She is an adult living in your home, so thinking of how you'd expect any adult staying in your home to behave and what rules you'd set about coming and going is good place to start.

Several ex-APs have made the valuable point that if they come and late and are ready for duty in the morning, then that's' really their affair. Ringing the bell to get you up is a PITA and no repeats is essential.

ES, your AP sounds the pits - hope it works out.

as she lives in it is different,and waking you up via the doorbell/forgetting key etc is annoying

but i dont think it is any of my employers business what time i go out/go to bed etc as long as I am fit and capable for work the following day

i do night nannying and sleep training and there are times that i work all day, then go and work a night and then back to my day job the next day

Oh blimey ES..... so you're paying and having someone living with you and they contributing.... nothing
I totally agree with Simply, you must sit down and very matter of fact go through all the things that aren't right. You hardly need her to do anything, yet she's not managing that. And don't leave it in future..next time you come in and the floor's unswept, tell her straight away.
As for the driving. Do not let her drive the dc's next week. Book a taxi. I always have had a driving instructor take AP's out as well, so they can tell me if there are major problems, what needs practising etc. Book her a lesson on Monday, they might say she's a complete no go, which has happened to me before.
Sorry If I seem harsh...just concern

I was an au pair many moons ago and frequently stayed out until 2/3 am in some cases. I was always back in time for school run, etc. and I was not 'out and clubbing' or having a great time the entire time. I once didn't get in until 4 am because I fell asleep at boyfriend's house (this was an occurence every night I was out past 1am) and didn't wake up until that time.

I actually felt it was more responsible to get myself up and on the night bus back to ensure I wasn't late for the school run than to stay there until 6.30/7 when all buses/trains are running late and possibly miss my start time.

The mum and I didn't agree at all, she wanted me in at a certain time, didn't allow any guests over (EVER), and was overly harsh, so I left.

Just be careful! Remember, she may be young, but she is an adult, one that you trust with your children no less, and can manage her time effectively. Like others have said, if you had a live-out au pair, you would have no idea what time she went to bed so think it's a bit unfair to impose this rule on her. Only exception would be if she were waking you or your children in the night.

englishspringer I agree with DIOM and blueshoes.

Pull her up on the things she has done wrong today or else she will think it doesn't matter (have experience of aps spoiling/damaging stuff and not caring.) Ideally do it straight away but if you haven't, decide what you're going to say and sit her down and tell her at the next good opportunity. She could be simply nervous about driving or else perhaps she can't drive on the left. Whichever, you need to be absolutely sure she is capable of driving by Tuesday or else you'll need to ask a friend or get a taxi for her and the children. She isn't doing her (very light) chores and she wasn't back by the set time. It's not working at all. You need to tell her now that she is there to help you and her behaviour is actually making her a hindrance. It is horrible having to correct ap's behaviour and it's one reason why this one is my second one and also my last.

sorry should be two hour session - not two sessions

ES - I had one AP where I wasn't too confident about her driving so she had a two session with a driving instructor.

OK, easy for me as FiL is the instructor, but can you book something similar before Tuesday to force the issue?

thanks for the advice - i kind of thought that but because i am preg thought that i would ask some 'rational' thinking people! seriously i feel like our house is an internet cafe and that is it - she has been home since 4pm (we were out at kiddy party) and she has not swept the floor from brekkie (just round table), left the iron switched on and full of water in the kitchen, left apple on the worktop - hung her white bedlinen on the stained wooden banisters(they now hae brown stains on them ) and because she was out at the gym all day she still hasn't driven. She is out all day tomorrow and sunday - Monday she could drive but on Tuesday i need her to be able to drive my children to nursery and school as i have to go to work for a half day to do final handovers etc. - at the moment feeling sick about the prospect of trusting her to get them there safely!

You need to set a time I told my AP that she had to be home by midnight on working nights simply beause she has a 6am start. When she comes in late doesnt matter how quiet she is (my kids are light sleepers) they hear the door opening and it disturbs their sleep.

I also found with the last one that she was very haphazard getting the kids ready cos she was so tired the minute she had dropped them to nursery she was in bed! Because this one drives I'm not taking a risk she needs to be alert and awake.

As for the OP what is AP doing????? She needs to understand exactly why you have employed her!!!! Have words or get rid....You'll need all the help ou can get after you C section

You are paying over the going rate for below average hours. You have taken two weeks to get her into routine (mine get two days) and she is not performing.

I am with blueshoes, this is a no brainer.

Just about to start a new thread in this area, please don't send her my way!