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Original poster

Mileage

39 replies

likessleep · 01/11/2008 20:16

We have found a childminder who we are very happy with and who has availability. We were really chuffed and very impressed with her attitudes towards childcare, range of activities and warmth. She is by far the best we've seen, in an area where they are hard to come by!
She is more expensive than other childminders we've seen, but felt happy to pay more, especially as we are looking for someone for just two days a week.
However, we got the contract through today and she has included 50p per mile for mileage. As she does a 20 mile round trip to a baby and toddler group on one of the two two days, this would mean an extra £40 a month.
Am I being mean by asking if there is any negotiation on this? From me singing from the treetops last week, so chuffed to have found someone who I was very impressed by, I have been left a little disappointed that she is proposing 50p a mile, which seems a lot to me.
Would appreciate your honest thoughts please.

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Original poster
likessleep · 03/11/2008 19:51

yeah, she said that she tried putting a few sentences in brackets afterwards to explain it, but that it ended up being longer than the contract itself. it is fair and everytime I speak to her, I feel reassured on her professionalism and ethusiasm. i am just a born worrier and have too much time on my hands at the moment to worry - i need to go back to work me thinks!!
thank you all every so much for your advice.

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AbbaFan · 03/11/2008 18:58

Thats great news. That all sounds very fair.

ChasingSquirrels · 03/11/2008 18:35

good news

RachieB · 03/11/2008 14:52

glad you got it sorted

maybe she needs to reword her contracts though ! so others are not confuddled about it!

as you said in your OP "....we got the contract through today, and she has included 50p per mile for mileage....."

x

Original poster
likessleep · 03/11/2008 10:24

I am so relieved, I have found this childcare search so stressful! I am sure I come across as one of those cynical 'are you going to put my child in front of TV all day?' mums. Supply doesn't seem to meet demand where I live. Mind you, I am now going to have to endure the 'I told you so' from DH (who said there'd be a reasonable explanation)!
Thanks again for all of your info and advice.

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nannynick · 03/11/2008 10:09

Good to hear you have got it sorted. Not sure a country walk is an out of the ordinary trip, though mind you I suppose if you live in a big city, it is. Where I live, country walks are common place!

Original poster
likessleep · 03/11/2008 09:47

HOORAH!!
I have just spoken to CM and that 50p a mile refers to 'out of the ordinary' trips, such as zoo, country walk etc, for which she has done about 4 this year (i.e. so not the b&t groups).
beforehand, she rings the parents and if they are't happy with this, she will switch to another day.
the 50p per mile is then absorbed across however many children go on the trip.
thank goodness!

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Original poster
likessleep · 03/11/2008 08:45

thank you all so much for the info.
i am going to ring her today, so here's hoping there is negotiation on this.
thanks again

OP posts:
ChasingSquirrels · 02/11/2008 22:33

in this instance the term expenses refers to an expense of the business, which is tax deductible against the income of the business.

AbbaFan · 02/11/2008 21:19

No expenses are nothing to do with the parents.

Thats just betweeen us and the Inland Rev people.

looneytune · 02/11/2008 17:23

I don't charge anything on top of the hourly rate anymore, but I used to charge £1.50 for an evening meal. We're all different and it's quite normal for people to charge for meals (but then they shouldn't claim the cost of food etc. on their tax return!), outings and some even charge for their holidays (not on top, just that the parent still has to pay). So basically it is down to the childminder what type of service she provides. I now charge just my set hourly rate and then all food, drink, trips to group, outings etc. are put down as expenses but I pay them upfront myself.

I'm still sure there is an issue with the car insurance if they charge for mileage, there was a thread some time ago that went into this but I just can't remember what it said exactly.

Original poster
likessleep · 02/11/2008 16:46

looneytune thank you. do you then charge 'expenses' to parents?
sorry if i am being a bit naive, but i am just trying to work out whether it is the norm to charge hourly rate plus 'expenses' or whether these 'expenses' are absorbed in the hourly rate (and it then becomes an accounting thing for the cm).
cheers

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looneytune · 02/11/2008 16:33

As a childminder I work out the mileage I do each month, log it on a spreadsheet and the total mileage x 40p is what we can put down as an 'expense'

nannynick · 02/11/2008 15:43

A childminder is self employed and is therefore taxed on profits, rather than turnover. BIM52751 explains what HMRC permits to be claimed.

This does not affect parents who use the childminders services at all.

Original poster
likessleep · 02/11/2008 15:03

Can I ask, a few of you have talked about 'claiming mileage back off of expenses'. What do you mean by this?
Is this a separate amount that a CM claims back from the government? Or do parents pay this within the hourly rate?
Sorry for asking probably a very stupid question, but a little bit of information may help my case!
Thanks

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Original poster
likessleep · 02/11/2008 14:58

Thank you all so much for your input, it has really helped me think about things.
DH keeps telling me not to think too much about it until I talk to her about it tomorrow.
But I do agree that 50p per parent per mile is a lot of money. I need to check everything with her and say that we are unhappy with this part of the contract. Hopefully she will be flexible/there will be a reasonable explanation and we can go forward. But I am not prepared for her to profit from this mileage, which is what I have the issue with.
It would be so much easier if it was all included in her hourly rate, in terms of my monthly budget.
Thank you again, all of your feedback has helped and I feel more confident to discuss this further with her.

OP posts:
nannynick · 02/11/2008 13:25

As I understand it, childminders can claim either the Approved Mileage Rate, or the Actual Cost, for mileage done "wholly and exclusively for business purposes". They can deduct the amount from their profits - thus meaning that they declare less profit, and thus pay less income tax.

If a childminder decides to charge parents an amount for transportation, then that amount goes on their books as income. From that they can then deduct the Approved Mileage Rate (most would choose this method as it is easier and does not require recording details of every journey made), or the Actual Cost. So if the amount charged to parents is higher than the amount they are claiming back, then that left over amount is all profit, which is then taxed.

Ultimately it is up to the childminder what their terms of business are. Parents can try to negotiate a contract.

Is 50p per mile reasonable? If per child, then no I don't think it is. If it is split between all fee paying customers for that particular journey, then yes it's probably about right given costs of fuel, insurance, maintenance, etc.

ShinyPinkPumpkin · 02/11/2008 13:23

If she does charge you mileage then she should be distributing the cost of this between all the children in her care. She could be charging every parent 50p a mile for all you know!

She might also be claiming mileage back off her expenses- meaning she is being reimbursed for it again!

My understanding was that if you were paid any more than 40p per mile you have to pay tax on the rest but I'm not completely sure of that.

jura · 02/11/2008 13:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nannyL · 02/11/2008 13:04

do YOU require that your children go to this group PR does your CM choose to take them.

If you dont require that they go then i think its a bit cheeky (But I DO understand that woth small children you have get out somewhere or else you drive yourself mad)

I think 50p per mile is was OTT... if i get more than 40p per mile (which i dont, i get 40p) then I would have to pay tax on any extra so does that mean she pays tax on the extra 10p?
40p per mile is the max that inland rev allow

I didnt realsie that CM charge for petrol for journeys they choose the make (I did realise some charge for school pick ups that parents dictate) and i think that 50p per mile is unreasonable.

looneytune · 02/11/2008 12:53

I'm sure there is something that says we are NOT ALLOWED to do this as we would then be classed as a taxi driver! That's why we claim mileage instead. Wish I could remember the thread that confirmed this was not allowed.

Blondeshavemorefun · 02/11/2008 12:01

cm and nannies need to go to groups to keep their sanity.so think it is fair to charge mileage as a nanny or claim back as exspenses as a cm

ChasingSquirrels · 02/11/2008 11:18

50p is high, but not extortionate imo.
But as I posted originally I would not be happy paying it for her to go to groups that she was chosing to go to, rather than doing drop-off/pick-up that I was asking her to do.

BoffinMum · 02/11/2008 11:17

Have you thought of hiring a cab driver to look after your offspring?? Might be cheaper than this childminder.

Sounds like she's ripping you off. Bet she's charging all the parents that and making £40 a trip. Nice little earner.

Blondeshavemorefun · 02/11/2008 11:12

50ppm seems a very high amount

nannies normally charge 40p but obv only work for that family - but obv she is a cm

if she is taking other children, i hope that she doesnt charge each parent 50p

not sure how you would work it out as a cm,assume put it down as exspenses as i do when i am se as a temp/mn nanny

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