Am I being unreasonable ?

Kanga, I would think that last minute schedule changes would be a rather unfair expectation (unless you agreed to it before taking these kids). I can appreciate if her job is unpredicatable. But I would think that at least one weeks prior notice would be possible. ALthough, I don;t know where she works. Perhaps her employer is not the reasonable.

But, that would drive me bonker. Last minute plans/changes make me really mad. I don;t stand for it from anyone -- ask my DH. If he waits 'til Friday to ask me what I want to do on Friday, I won't be doing anything with him.

I am just wondering what different arrangements you would have been made if you had had:

1 week

2 weeks

3 weeks

etc?

I wish my mindees parents would always give notice

She works shifts and changes them and then tells me rather than asking if I can work before changing them.

It doesn't really matter to me really as I only have 1 mindee but sometimes I am doing something else.

But if I had more mindees I would not be able to be flexible at all as may go over numbers.

The reason this family cannot go to a nursery is because nurseries do not offer flexibility.

I really enjoy working with this family I was just pointing out that it goes both ways. Also I really enjoy part time as I have more time for mumsnet

I always gave my parents as much notice as I could but as I said before somtimes I didn't get much notice. This is not a problem that is solely childminders but also affects nurseries and nannies. Nurseries have to close sometimes (rarely I agree) because of unforeseen circumstances and they are not in the position of offering alternative childcare. Generally speaking I agree with the person that says this should be discussed when signing a contract (I always discussed this at this point). Maybe thats why I've never got into this situation with a parent. My daughters school are always late when confirming parents meetings and as its important I have to go. I have to find childcare and my children are not allowed to attend. This is inconvience but thats the way it is. (I don't have family and rely on friends to help me out).

I really feel that yes she didn't give you much notice however I would just say to her thank you for telling me but could you give me a bit more time to organise ourselves.

One last point I am a member of the National Childmindings Assiciation Childminding Network this means I am inspected by NCMA every 6 weeks. This is voluntary but it means I have support from them and also I can take the Childcare Vouchers that nurseries take. Its a bit of a pain to wait in for somebody every 6 weeks but not a big problem. I have been inspected by social services an now OFSTED and to my mind not really worth a great deal. NCMA's checks were better and more thorough.

Looneylaura - childminders get checked once a year. The Gov wants to change that to once every 2 (or even 3) years.

I think most good childminders would prefer to be check more often. It adds to our "status" imo

BTW a network childminder gets checked every 6-8 weeks. I'm a network childminder and feel confident that "best practice" occurs in my house and that any problems or mistakes or 'sloopy' practices I fall into can be picked up quickly and sorted almost immediatley.

SSD. to be honest, I think that you should review your contract, and have these conversations before you take on the job. It would probabbly be a good idea to revise your contract now for future clients. If you want to CAT me, I'd be glad to look at contract and tell you where I think it could be fairly revised.

Do you work part time because you choose to? Or do you live in area where there are not a lot of children? Or perhaps there are loads of other childminders?

The childminder we used I am sure makes more money than I do. I remember when she went on holiday to the Maldives, and thought "Oh my, that must be nice. Do I pay you too much?". It is, however, entirely possible that she just budgets her money better than I do.

As for the children you already look after, you could perhapps revise the arrangement, but it is a much stickier issue when they already come to you. You would probably need to give a lot of notice. Like say that your rates are going up in two months and outline what they will be. However, as you only look after one family, this approach runs the risk of turning away your only source of income.

Anyway, if you CAT me, I'll be glad to offer my opinion.

I've probably totally hijacked the topic of this thread now... sorry.

Thanks for your reply Uwila.

I work for one family Mondays and Wednesdays only and I don't get paid for the BH if it falls on a Monday.But I'm sure the parents do......

My problem is that I don't want to upset anyone and I tend to do the contract more in their favour than in mine!

You sound very business minded and fair Uwila.What "business" advice would you give a part-time childminder who feels she is hopeless at sticking up for herself?

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. If my CM cant look after my DD and I cant find someone else appropriate then I have to take the day off and dont get paid for it either.

My DD (2yrs old) goes to a CM who I have made a contract with which states various different notive times and rates of pay whether she is there or not.

Said CM wanted to go and see her son for the day in London but gave me two weeks notice (stated in our contract) and was embarrassed about asking if I would mind. I said that was fine as everyone is entitled to be with their own family and she arranged everything for my DD to go to another CM's for the day. She even took DD round to see other CM and to get her used to the place before she went. I did not pay her, but the other CM instead.

I was under the impression that contracts were made for piece of mind between parent and CM and insurance, etc. Also, I wasnt aware that CM's were allowed to look after more than their numbers for insurance reasons?

On another note....
I have been to many CM's to view their places before considering leaving my DD with them and can quite honestly say I have been appalled and disgusted that authorities give these people the go ahead to look after children in their homes. I went to one womens house that stank of smoke and the place was covered in cat hair as she was breeding cats in her living room! Don't get me wrong, we have 3 cats of our own and my DD loves them, but this place was rancid! I thought that CM's had a check done on their homes to see if they are safe and appropriate to have children in?? And how often are they checked?
Could someone answer that for me?

As a CM I would think it was unfair to give you such short notice, personally. And if I had only had that much notice, I would have rung you ASAP. I am a mum first, yes. But a business second, and she really should have covered that, knowing she had your dd.

SSD, further to that...

Maybe if I was using the CM just on Mondays (and bank Holidays tend to fall on Mondays, I might feel I was paying an unfair share of your holiday. Maybe it would be fair if someone who uses a childminder only on Monday pay say half of the bank holiday...

I'll have to answer hypothetically because I never have and never will work part time. But, yes I suppose that's fair that is I use her on Tuesday and Friday and the bank holiday falls on Friday, then I would still pay. However, I also used to use her for about 11 hours per day (this long day was of course discussed and agreed before we signed the contract) and we agreed that we would standardise all bank holidays at a normal working 8 hour day.

In general, I would say that paying a business for a day they don't actually work would go against my principals. But, when I was shopping for a childminder I found this to be common practice so I just accepted it as the way the market works. And, as I said earlier she was great about always finding her own cover. She was always very tolerant about me being late (this was discussed and agreed before the contract was signed so I didn't just not show up without warning). So, I didn't really mind mind the bank holidays so much.

Actually, typing all of this has reminded me how we miss her. I must giver her call sometime so DD can get together with her and her kids.

My mum works at Tescos on Tues & Wed she gets a proportion of her bank holidays.

I'm thinking of charging in that way.

ie.child attend on Mon & Fri for 3 hrs so on a B/H pays 2/5th of the going rate. (in my case 2/5th of £9 - £3.60) but in a holiday would that be 2/5th of the holiday rate?? (8hrs = £24 so 2/5th = £9.60?)

Hmm - very complicated

Uwila, from a parents point of view, would you be willing to pay bank holidays even if you only used the c/m say 2 days a week and the BH fell on one of those days?

I would also like to say that I think it is fair that parents still pay when their child doesn't show up. As a rule, if the childminder went onholiday, I didn't pay her (but I obviously paid someone else in her absense). If I didn't show up for whatever reason, I still paid. I also paid her for Bank Holidays.

It's a very emotive subject - A few childminders are unprofessional and a few parents are thoughtless.
Most parents are thoughtful and considerate.
Most Childminders are caring and professional.

But it's the few that everyone pays attention to - rather than the majority

Think that the childminder is perfectly entitled to put her own family first - let's face it, we all would.
Scotsbird - how would you have managed in that situation if your child was ill, would you not have been able to take time off work to be with her? Or if the childminder's children were ill and she asked you to take your dd home at short notice?
I think that 5 days notice is quite reasonable though I take your point about her only telling you by chance. I usually get 3 or 4 days notice of parents evening at the most (and have complained about it to no avail).

Marypop, those are horrific behaviours you describe for a parent. Certainly out of line, and the childminder should definitely lay down some rule with those parents.

However, I disagree that a childminder has a right to violate a contract whenever she sees fit because she isn't an employee. I think that as a business you must honor the contract. If not you personally, you have to find someone else who can. But, as I said before, this is a point which should be clarifies before the contract is signed. If it isn't, then it's a big shade of grey, granted.

Also, you say parents don't show up... Do they pay you anyway? They should. Their end of the bargain is that they pay you a certain amount of money. Money that you of course rely on to run your business. So, obviously it is perfectly fair for you to expect them to live up to theire end of the contract.

I also think that different parents have different reactions to situations.

2 weeks ago my DD was sick - I phoned the mindees parents (6 of them) and
1 asked how dd was and explained that their child would still becoming as these bugs go & come where ever they want.
3 asked if I would still have their child.
1 said they would be sending their child whether I wanted to work or not.
1 said that they didn't want her dd to get the same bug - so she wouldn't be coming.

Obviously sickness is different, but there varying reactions are very telling.

BTW Childminders are not employed - they are S/E. How many times have you been let down by a builder/plumber etc? Also S/E

Most C/Mers (that I know) will go out of their way to accomodate their mindees & parents - but sometimes "Stuff Happens"

BTW I'm not excusing the particular C/Mer with the parents evening - it was unproffessional

Message withdrawn

I would also consider discussing with her what resposibility she is willing to take on regarding arranging cover. Before I hired my childminder (and incidentally you are your childminder's client -- and not her employer), I discussed with her who would cover if she was ill or otherwise unable to work. She has several friends who are childminders and they routinely swap the kids around (with parental agreement of course).

However, if this was never discussed with your childminder, it might be a bit harsh to just expect. But, as others have said, more notice is definitely within reason.

As you say you are otherwise happy with the childminder, I wouldn't go too hard on her, and I certainly wouldn't pull an 18 month out of her care. But, I would want to agree a plan for when and if this happens again in the future.

Sorry KatyMac that excuse doesn't work for me as I have had plenty of parents who have not told me until the day before they have the day off or asked me to work late the day before. With more notice I could have do something with that time but hey ho is all you say.

As a childminder I have often felt that parents don't always see that childminders have families etc and don't take that into consideration when giving childminders notice. I think for me parents using childminders need to remember that unforeseen stuff happens and they have to not work or have a back up. i had a close friend who was also a registered childminder who was my emergency cover so these incidences never happened.

PS childminders are not employees they are self employed and therefore are entitled to work as it pleases them and say NO. Yes there is a contract but parents often don't stick to it and turn up hours late without even ringing. I even have a childminding friend who parents left there child with the minder FOR THE WEEKEND without even asking. Unfortunately for the parents the childminder wasn't registered for overnight care and had to ring social services. The child was nearly taken into care had it not been for social services goving emergency cover for the minder. The child was then put on the at risk register and shortly after the parent was looking for alternative childcare.

Yep - I think More notice is very much an issue here. I regularily take my mindees to appointments (for me, for my DD and even for my mindees ie this am I dropped a urine sample in at the Drs for one mindee). Even to school for a parent/teacher conferenc thingee. My parents don't mind. I haven't ever given this little notice of notminding - but it may have been a fait accompli from the school.

Emphasise the More Notice thing as it would be more professional for her to have given more notice

I would really hammer hime the "more notice" - I am quite surpised at the attitude here that a childminder who is a mother can put her kids first at very short notice (illness aside) - A childminder is still an employee with contractual obligations to the parents that employ her -- she can not change the terms of the contract to suit herself - I would say if the parents thing co-incided with a time that she should be working, then she either accomodates the children in her plans, arranges acceptable (insured!) cover that is agreed with the parents or has to lose out..

she is a working mother and the rest of us have to abide by contracts I think she is leaving you in the lurch myself