Registering with Ofsted: Nanny V Childminder registration. HELP!

navyeyelasH · 2008-08-10T23:32:44+00:00

Ok so my problem is that I do not know which way it is beneficial for me to register. I technically work as a nanny, but I also offer ad-hoc care and it would be great to be able to offer this from my own home also. I know if I register as a CM will need all the forms/policies etc and that I will be inspected also know about EYFS and am cool with all that. But can I technically do this? I need to be registered as a parent I work for will be claiming tax vouchery things; but if I register as a CM (rather than as a nanny via voluntary route) will this effect them? Also seems to make more sense because I may want to become a CM at some point (v v unlikely but you never know do you?)

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 14/08/2008 20:56

Hmm this is such a bugger! I think I might register as both and save myself the headache pending insurance issues. I can register as a CM in a few months so I have time to save the fee up.

I think you're right nannynick that is the reason I get so many enquiries, also loads of people (34 - some not even from my area) have emailed me saying they really like my website and that it makes me seem really approachable & fun, so that's another reason. The lowest rate I have been offered is £5 an hour (2 little girls, 2 & 4 for 4 hours on two Saturday mornings) and the most is £20 an hour for one little boy (4) which was really short notice (1 day before), also there is no minimum time slots although I have never worked for less than 4 hours. I have never turned a job down due to cost, but I am very very lucky in that my ad-hoc wage is not something we rely on. I would probably have a lot more structure in my prices if this wasn't the case!

I also advertise everyday: gumtree, facebook (have a group and profile on there), netmums, findasitter, nanny jobs, post office & local shops & churches, post flyers every fortnight, flyer cars when I go to the supermarket, when I go to local events such as school fêtes I wear a t-shirt that advertises the website and so do my mindees and sometimes so do the parents! If anyone approaches any of us we have a little chat and give them a business card.

I have no qualifications in childcare (just degrees) and not much commercial experience so I knew if I wanted to get work I would have to flexible, unfussy and quite cheap!

Thanks very much for your help on this nannynick it's much appreciated.

OP posts:

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 14/08/2008 20:56

Hmm this is such a bugger! I think I might register as both and save myself the headache pending insurance issues. I can register as a CM in a few months so I have time to save the fee up.

I think you're right nannynick that is the reason I get so many enquiries, also loads of people (34 - some not even from my area) have emailed me saying they really like my website and that it makes me seem really approachable & fun, so that's another reason. The lowest rate I have been offered is £5 an hour (2 little girls, 2 & 4 for 4 hours on two Saturday mornings) and the most is £20 an hour for one little boy (4) which was really short notice (1 day before), also there is no minimum time slots although I have never worked for less than 4 hours. I have never turned a job down due to cost, but I am very very lucky in that my ad-hoc wage is not something we rely on. I would probably have a lot more structure in my prices if this wasn't the case!

I also advertise everyday: gumtree, facebook (have a group and profile on there), netmums, findasitter, nanny jobs, post office & local shops & churches, post flyers every fortnight, flyer cars when I go to the supermarket, when I go to local events such as school fêtes I wear a t-shirt that advertises the website and so do my mindees and sometimes so do the parents! If anyone approaches any of us we have a little chat and give them a business card.

I have no qualifications in childcare (just degrees) and not much commercial experience so I knew if I wanted to get work I would have to flexible, unfussy and quite cheap!

Thanks very much for your help on this nannynick it's much appreciated.

OP posts:

nannynick · 14/08/2008 20:24

Sorry, was busy Wed evening, so haven't have time to respond until now.

It says, 14 days or fewer in a year does that mean 14 consecutive days in one year or 14 days total in one year do you think?

5(1)(b) it says: "on particular premises for 14 days or fewer in a year commencing with the relevant day"
So I think it could be argued that the 14 days needs not be consecutive.

Also am I reading this right; I could be exempt under 5 (ii)(aa) so long as was only adhoc and under 4 hours? Bra5n has gone to sleep but think I am reading it right blush

Yes, but the parents need to be on the premises.
5(1)(ii)(bb) "for the convenience of clients who intend to remain on the premises where the provision is made or within their immediate locality"
It appears to me to be designed to make a crèche exempt.

205 enquiries total

That's a huge number of enquiries. I'm lucky if I can get a hand-full of enquiries a month. So very well done on getting such a high number of enquiries.

I wonder if your pricing structure has anything to do with that - you don't have prices on your website... you seem to be open to the parent's naming their price - is that the case? What price range are they giving... expect some must want childcare for free, or very low cost, whereas others will feel it is of higher value.

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 12/08/2008 22:34

Grrr I hate it when posts don't format! What did I do wrong?

OP posts:

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 12/08/2008 22:33

nannynick you are such a star! I would owe you a drink or something if this was RL

It says, 14 days or fewer in a year does that mean 14 consecutive days in one year or 14 days total in one year do you think?

Also am I reading this right; I could be exempt under 5 (ii)(aa) so long as was only adhoc and under 4 hours? Bra5n has gone to sleep but think I am reading it right

In terms of numbers I have had 205 enquiries total.

58 have asked to be at mine

Of these I have worked for only 7 families; I said it wrong, I have only worked for 10% 12% that have asked.

30 have been double/ 6 have been triple bookings (3 families asked for same day on 6 different dates)

Thank god I am anal when it comes to email folders otherwise I don't know how I would have answered that

OP posts:

nannynick · 12/08/2008 19:48

See The Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) Order 2008 see 5(b).

So the voucher thing isn't an issue. It's more that you get enquiries from people wanting you to provide the care at your home, and when you say you can't, they don't want the care at their home, so don't hire you... is that right?
Any chance of figures, rather than percentage?
From your percentages, I think that if 28 people enquired, 10 of those roughly would be wanting care at your home, of which only 1 would not be willing to hire you, due to you not providing the care at your home. So it's a 1:28 loss.
I'd be happy with that to be honest... 28 enquiries resulting in 27 bookings, it's good going. You can't please everyone all the time.

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 12/08/2008 19:29

nannynick in the last 4 months (how long I have been doing this) about 30-35% ask to be at mine, of these about 10% don't book when they find out can't be at mine. Then approx 20% are double bookings.

Only one of my regular families needs to use the vouchers - so with them I am an employee and work as a nanny.

What is this 14 day allowance? Have I missed somehting really obvious?

OP posts:

nannynick · 12/08/2008 19:10

How many of the families would be using Childcare Vouchers? Is that where the problem occurs, as you need to be registered to accept those.

nannynick · 12/08/2008 19:06

Your nanny insurance is unlikely to cover you at your home... it tends to cover you at your employers home, or whilst on outings. Check with your insurer with regard to what cover they provide if you provide the childcare at your own home. I would expect the insurer could offer you another policy - the Childminder policy - to cover that. MM charge from £40 for their childminder policy.

nannynick · 12/08/2008 19:03

I would use the 14 day allowance, to enable you to care for children at your home, if that is really what parents want.

If you look back over the past year, on how many occasions have people wanted you to care for children at your home, rather than theirs?

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 12/08/2008 19:01

diane73 I don't mind doing the course it's no problem - I'd probably enjoy it. I have nanny insurance and liability insurance for my home. Not yet looked into CM insurance does anyone have any idea of costs?

Policies, procedure etc also know about and will have some help on them from a CM friend

Before worrying about insurance etc I need to figure out what to do about Ofsted is it even a possibility to register as a CM but be a nanny. I rang them 3 different times about it and got three different answers

OP posts:

Diane73 · 12/08/2008 15:49

You have to do the course to register as a CM there is no otheer way round it also your right you do have to register and children under 8 you'll be looking after in your home also ahve to have policies, procedures, contracts, sep insurance than u need as a nanny. Is it worth it??? CM course is free but take up 2-3 sat or 6-8 evenings you need to see if its finacially viable to do both or just be a nanny or a CM alone?

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 11/08/2008 22:16

Yup I reckon I will be too KatyMac but if I'm not knackered and I still have loads of parents asking me to work for them I'm going to kick myself for not finding this out now! I'm trying to cover all bases and get my head around the minefield that is ofsted.

I'm 24 so quite young & generally fit and healthy I did full time nanny evening and weekend work for 6 works and weirdly felt fine! I'm not proposing to do weekend work every weekend - even if it's just every now and again I'm sue it could benefit some people. I might even have free childcare days if I can get registered as a CM every other month or something would be great to give less well off parents a break too and I don't mind it

OP posts:

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 11/08/2008 22:12

PS. I think I need to register to do it at mine because Ofsted say you have to register if you care for LO's for more than 2 hours etc (?)

OP posts:

KatyMac · 11/08/2008 22:09

You will be knackered

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 11/08/2008 22:07

Yup KatyMac has it right; a lot of the enquiries I get are from different parents who don't mind me looking after various children but they don't want all these children in their homes especially as 50% of the time the parents are at home.

I will try and explain a bit without giving any detials of my families away:

I work for one family Mon-Thurs after school, then Mon-Thurs full time when children are off school

I work for another family Fridays (all the time) and Wednesday Mornings (term time only)

And from Sep I will be working Mon, Tue, Thurs morning (term time only) as a childminders assistant.

Every 8-9 weeks I work as a sort of live in nanny/house sitter, Sun-Thurs early morning and evening with 2 school aged children, around all these other families.

So it's pretty unlikely I will be able to continue the ad-hoc care on weekends as I will be shattered! But before I fork out for Ofsted I want to make sure I am exploring all avenues appropriately.

For the last 4 months I have been doing ad-hoc work mainly weekends and evening baby sitting. But I have had to refuse some booking because parents want me to have Lo's at mine (normally they are decorating or something) or more than one family approach me for same dates and I can't do all families but if I was a CM I could do all families and also each family would pay less.

Tax wise Inland Revenue reckon for my nanny work Mon-Fri I'd be an employee and then ad-hoc work (either evenings / weekend) I'd be self Employed; with the weekend work it's really flexible as parents may not want me every weekend and TBH I do not want to work every weekend.

From Ofsted I have gathered that I will have usual inspections, but I plan to just "borrow" children and all pile into my house for inspection day. Where I live is baby proof, has a play room, sleep room, and a little eating area I have sectioned for children (before was a nanny used to look after family)

Not bothered about doing courses etc; understand that wanting to register as a CM is infinitely more hassle than as a nanny but think in my situation would be worth it?

OP posts:

KatyMac · 11/08/2008 21:35

Presumably so she can have children from several families

nannynick · 11/08/2008 21:34

Tell me more about the ad-hoc care at your home. What is it that you would be proposing? Why could you not do it at the child's home? Why would you need to be registered to do it at your home... The Childcare (Exemptions from Registration) Order 2008 extends the 6 day rule to 14 days. Is that enough to cover the ad-hoc care?

KatyMac · 11/08/2008 21:28

God Nick Yes

It is only DD that stops me working Saturdays/Sundays & evenings

nannynick · 11/08/2008 21:27

Good point Diane, though not sure if Ofsted could cope with you being a registered childminder from two different addresses. And if you were a childminder at their home, then you would need to take other children as well - otherwise an HRMC status office may decide that you are an employee, not self-employed for that job.
I think it's messy because you are needing to deal with two different sets of rules/regulations, tax law and employment law.

You want to be a nanny Mon-Fri and a childminder Sat/Sun... is that right?

nannynick · 11/08/2008 21:23

I think the difficulty is that the parent would be telling the voucher provider that they have a nanny, so the voucher provider will be expecting a registration starting VC. As a childminder registering now, your reg would start EY.
If the parents didn't say what sort of carer they were using, then I do wonder if you could put the voucher amount through your childminding books. Perhaps, though could mess up tax quite a bit. Think it would get very messy.

I wonder how Ofsted go about inspecting a childminder who only provides childcare at weekends. Is there demand for childminding at weekends?

Diane73 · 11/08/2008 21:18

If you want to register as a CM you have to do a course even as a qualified nanny! I've done it recentley was bit like being taught to suck eggs!! But business side was interesting. You can be a reg CM that works from parents home that is acceptable we were told on our course best people to contact NCMA - www.ncma.co.uk

Original poster

navyeyelasH · 11/08/2008 20:57

So lets say hypothetically;

I register as a nanny now: 2 months later my boss decides she no longer wants a nanny, so I think, "I know I'll be a CM". I'd have to re-register with Ofsted as a CM. (imagine if a CM decided to become a nanny they'd have to register in an almost "down graded" (in the sense that CM are much more regulated than nannies) fashion! How stupid?)

Surely if I am registered with Ofsted as a CM, fully inspected and have insurance it would be fine?

Why is everything so complex? ARGHH

OP posts:

nannynick · 11/08/2008 19:33

There are two separate registers, so I think Katymac is right, you could register on both. It would involve two fees. Also you would need to check the insurance, wonder if MM could do a combined policy if you ask them.

MrsFluffleHasAWuffle · 11/08/2008 19:19

Can you limit yourself to over 8s only whereby your "nanny reg" will cover that won't it?