Would you make an au pair pay?

Oh dear

As irresponsible as I think it is to go out and get drunk - because let's face it, you are an easier target to get robbed as you'll put up less resistance than were you fully alert... there is NEVER an occasion for a woman to be asking to be raped. Ever. The man is the criminal, not her.

ignore, ignore...old thread, didn't mean to revive...

There is an important difference between 'being vulnerable to' and 'being responsible for'.

Oh my goodness, this has all gotten a bit nasty...

Back to the keys. I had ananny who lost her mobile phone and keys because she left her purse on the train. I didn't charge her for changing the lock. I did ask her to pay for half of the mobile phone but offer her extra babysitting hours to pay it off that way rather than it actually coming out of her paycheck.

I think Goosey was just talking about personal responsibility -- although admittedly she didn't phase it brilliantly. But, still, she's just saying that when you get shitfaced you precautions not to lose things like by say putting the key in your fron pocket or not taking a purse/hangbag.

ingles2 - I agree.

Lovelysongbird
that last comment it totally out of order

Look, everyone is entitled to an opinion. you may not agree with the OP's, personally I don't... but I think this has been blown out of proportion now. The Op wasn't inflammatory, she just said her point of view. That does not justify being called an evil bitch

Gooseegg- I would be very, very careful about what you say on this board.

People who have been sexually assualted and/or raped feel bad, sick and yes GUILTY (without ANY reason to be )enough about it as it is, without you coming along and making sick, twisted downgrading remarks like that.

there is a fine line i suppose between sexual abuse and rape.

The thing is, according to the OPs phillosophy - if you spout potentially hurtful bullshit like that, you are at least partially responsible for getting flammed!

I dread to think whatyou would say about someone not fighting back when they are being assaulted.

only read the op. no i would not make her pay. i would pay and just be thankful she was ok. these things happen.

Lem maybe a tad harsh there. I don't think the op actually said that a drunk woman deserved to get raped. Just in her opinion that there is partial responsibility if a woman knowingly put herself in a vunerable position. Not saying I agree with her and I would hope that she now very much regrets that one sentence about partial responsibility very early on in the thread.
I stand by my other post on this thread. I do think that in an ideal world a woman should not have to compromise her behaviour because she may be attacked. But until we live in an ideal world it makes reasonable sense to me to take steps to protect oneself. That however in no way excuses the behaviour of men who prey on vunerable women or apportions any of the blame away from the rapist. Just it is a sad fact that these men do exist and as such we all sadly have to take steps to protect ourselves. Whether or not we should have to is immaterial. As I said before not being responsible doesn't make the woman any less raped.
As I have already said I am not defending what the op said at all. I just don't think that your interpretation of what she said is what she meant. I could be completely wrong and she could beleive that all women who let alcohol pass their lips deserve to be raped, just not how I read it that's all.

[andry]

gooseegg you sicken me with your comments. I am truly shocked that you could possibly think something like that about sexual assault and can only assume that you are tlaking such utter utter shite because you have never been in a situation where you have been sexually assaulted, or assaulted in any way.

Your ignorance is truly remarkable.

I was a 15 yr old know it all, who had to much to drink one night, stupidly trusted the person who offered to take me home because I knew them, I was raped, but it's so good to know it was my fault and I was asking for it......thanks

I posted on a thread a while back about rape, and have changed my name since, now I know why, because of people like you

sorry guys I'm going to ignore all the rape stuff.

One of my AP's lost her door key one day. By the time I got home from work she'd already had the locksmith round and paid for it. I paid her back 80 of the 100 pounds. She wasn't expecting any money as she felt it as her responsibillity. I paid because I was impressed she had sorted it out herself.

Has brought back some memories for me too
Although I have never felt exactly responsible for being assualted there has always been something in the back of my mind that says 'but if you had not have been drunk, you would not have kissed this guy and invited him in for coffee'
I KNOW I did not ask for what happened next but no matter how many times I said no, if I hadn't invited him in, he would not have had the opportunity to do what he did would he....
I don't feel responsible for what happened but do feel responsible for putting myself in that situation

SheikYerBouti oh hell what a shit thing to happen TBH gooseegg post has really upset me. need a bit of distance here

i'm reading this on my mobile, so the thread has moved on i'm sure by now.

I have only read some of your comments, goosegg, and you are so fucking wide of the mark. In fact, I find your primitive views pretty fucking repugnant.

I just hope you are never raped as I was. You should be ashamed of yourself

I absolutely agree ? thieves and rapists do look for vulnerable people to take advantage of ? but does that then give the rapist or thief mitigating circumstances in the eyes of the because they do then stumbles upon a vulnerable person?

I think it might be perfectly reasonable for someone to say, ?I shouldn?t have done that ? I should have turned right, not left; shouldn?t have had that last cocktail; should have got a taxi (though that is a minefield of it?s own); shouldn?t have kissed him, but humans are complex and fallible (this is the crux of your argument I think) victims just as much as purps, and being foolish does not equate to being deserving of an awful crime such as sexual assault or mugging. It is a false equivalence ? there is a woolly area but the aggressor must always take responsibility for the criminality of their actions.

The sad thing is some people will always find themselves in vulnerable situations ? not always by their doing. A woman raped after walking naked in a back alley at will probably be admonished (depending on the circumstances of how she found herself there ? but the rapist should not then receive a lighter sentence, or be given points for diminished responsibility, should they?

Goosegg, I was once that girl who didn't take enough care, and was raped and didn't report it because I was scared. But, I don't actually think you're comments are unreasonable. Of course it wasn't my fault, and it's not anyone's fault if a criminal takes advantage of them. But, it makes sense to try to find a safe way home, not get so drunk that you don't know where you are, etc etc. In this particular case, you should certainly tell your ap that she must take more care of the keys, never keep the keys and your address together, tell her how much it is costing you, and that you have discussed with dh whether she should have to pay since you think she wasn't very responsible, but have decided not to on this occasion.

ScottishMummy that would explain a lot and makes me feel very sad.

I suppose there will always be problems convicting when it is just one person's word against another.

The fact the the jury are starting out with a view that women are asking for it if they've had a drink, and that if they don't vigorously fight back (which I think people often don't) means they don't mind really, means that victims are truly stuffed.

No wonder no-one reports these crimes.

gooseegg opinion has really made me sad.a woman drinking alcohol does not condone her being sexually assaulted. a twisted frame of reference that partially blames the victim for the attack. step back, apportion blame with the attacker. This logic leads to a "asking for it" logic

i have read some nonsense on MN usually i shrug it off but this has really shocked me.

apparently juries tend to disbeleive sexual assaults/rape when the victim has not pghysically fought her assailant and left defensive evidence of having done so

no wonder rape conviction rates are so low

gooseeg - I went to prague and when I got out of the airport was a bit worried about getting a taxi - but it seemed ok, I made it appear that I knwew exactly where I was going and had been there before. (I hadn't been to prague before)

My cousin got the train two years later and was mugged by 7 men - they pinned him against the door of the train so he couldn't move and took everything in his pockets and even checked his socks. They didn't harm him physicaly but took his money. When he got to the hotel it was if it was an every day occurance and they just sorted it out for him - apparently it does happen a lot. So when his wife flew out two days later she got a taxi and that seemed to be ok.

I can only say just tell him to be careful and have his wits about him.

Even if he is travelling with mates they need to be careful as it is a hot spot for mugging and I dont know if they only pick on single guy/girls travelling alone or will tackle a few people?