How is it fair?

Well said Uwila and better said than me. Deep breath Feel better now

I work in an office and am proud of that fact that I bring in a salary to pay for the mortgage and the bills (just). What wrong with that?? Why shouldnt I? Why not????? DD is not in anyway affected badly by this. She has a loving home and a GOOD STAY AT HOME DAD to look after her. WHY SHOULD MUMS ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO FEEL GUILTY??? Children have TWO parents so why not have a go at working dads????? Why not ask them about feeling guilty about going out to work and leaving their kids?????

Princessfiona, I am struggling to contain myself.. but I'll keep trying to remain civil here.

Questioning my choice to work full time, and not my husband's is something that baffles me. These attitudes belong in the 1950s.

Also your comments are coming desperately close to questions my worth as a mother. I answered your questions to help you understand. But, you seem to be saying that my choosing to go to work instead of hanging out with my kids for the day is wrong. You didn't blatantly state that, but it seems to be implied.

Why do you not question the work ethic of fathers, only mothers? Does your husband work a full day?

That's a whole different debate, PF

In that case, I misunderstood your original post too, I apologise.

I was answering the question about looking after children being worth so little. Well, I don't personally think so! It's got nothing to do with whether you employ an au pair or not. They get paid according to market conditions, as do all domestic workers, including babysitters.

It's nonsensical to put a monetary value of your child's welfare - of course, the answer is "priceless". Most people who look after this priceless commodity get paid zero, or close to it.

You pay your employees according to their skills and experience, in light of supply & demand. You could never pay them what your child's welfare is worth so it's a pretty futile exercise.

It was clearly a case of crossed wires and misunderstood posts. It's been said a million times before but it is easy done on here as we can't get our tone across very accurately.

Steady on, Ameriscot ! As far as I can see, moondog never said that you did ! She was just challenging your points which compared your 'working conditions' with regards to your kids as a parent and those of your Au Pair in the same capacity. She couldn't find the relevancy of your comparison to this debate. That's all. TBH, I thought your 'Well, i don't get paid for looking after my kids' attitude was a little bizarre too.

Princessfiona,
I work for several reason.
1- I do make more than I pay the nanny, but not a lot more after I'm finished paying taxes.
2- I hold my right to work and maintain a rewarding career very close to my heart. Why should I have to give up my career and so stay home so that my husband can maintain and flourish in his. I regard this as a fundamental subset of equality for women.
3- I like to work. It would be lovely if I could do this for say 5 hours a day and then go home to my wonderful kid(s). But in the real world people who show up oart time are regarded as half comitted and do not get the opportunites as those who put in the long hours.
4- I want my children to think that women and men have careers. And not that daddies go to work whilst mummy looks after the mundane housework.
5- I'm sure my complete list is much longer, but can't think of the rest just now.

Sorry Moondog, I didn't know I needed your approval to write what I wanted.

When working women use au pairs, it's not to look after children all day. It's to take them to school and pick them up again at the end. They then have 9 - 3 off to do their language classes, go shopping, meet friends etc. They may work from, say, 7 - 9am and 3 - 6pm to equal 25 hours.

I don't think any "guilty" parents are going to answer your questions, PF, because I think they are a rarity in the UK.

All the families that I know with au pairs treat them fairly and keep to the standard au pair working hours (25 hours per week, plus two nights babysitting, 2 full days off). "Sole charge" is when they get children to and from school, and for short periods of time - not for hours on end. The minimum au pair pocket money is in the region of £50 a week, but I don't know anyone who pays this low. I don't think that many au pairs would accept such a low payment.

I pay my au pair 80p an hour below minimum wage which basically means that she has room & full board for £20 a week - bargain. It's probably worth £100 a week if I had a lodger instead.

I believe that nannies - who do work long hours - get paid a reasonable sum for their duties. I have a friend with a nanny, and she costs them well over £20k a year for working 8 - 6pm.

sorry, for the dbl post

'so you say that they are renting their room do you from the parents?'

Can you clarify what you actually mean by this statement, please, pf ?

'so you say that they are renting their room do you from the parents?'

Can you clarify what you actually mean by this statement, please, pf ?

princess - I think you're missing the key point about these 'below minimum wages' - they don't have to pay for their food or for the roof over their heads.

It's a bit like the difference between a pub landlord who lives ON the property, and one that still lives in their own home. The one living ON the property probably gets payed less by the brewery than the one living in their own home - because of the extra costs involved.

I suppose they could give the Au Pairs 'minimum' wages and then ask for their contribution for food and lodgings back straight away - but I doubt that would be very popular and also very silly!

Ahh...in that case stating the obvious then.

Eh, Moondog? What are you talking about? I have no grief about my working conditions...I was just answering PF's questions.

sorry expat you misunderstand me - I didn't work as an Au pair - I was working in a school in the end - for less pay than a few Au pairs I knew (and they didn't have to prepare lessons, mark work and attend staff meetings 'after work hours). BUT the experience was worth it -