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Original poster

dilemma with our nanny - opinions sought

36 replies

MGMidget · 08/07/2008 10:37

We have a dilemma with our nanny and I'd appreciate others views who have more experience of childcare and nannies than me!

We hired our first nanny for our baby boy in March this year when our son was almost six months old. He seems very happy with her and its been going well. We proposed getting her Ofsted registered during her interview and she was keen on this. We paid for her first aid course (including paid salary for attending the course) and we were just on the verge of going ahead with the Ofsted registration when she dropped a bombshell. She's told us she doesn't have her accommodation sorted out (she's been sleeping on someone's sofa apparently) and may have to leave London so doesn't want to go ahead with the Ofsted registration. However, my husband has now committed to a year of vouchers as part of his benefits package and can't cancel it. Therefore we have a bit of a dilemma and I wondered what others would do. We were thinking of extending her contract from three days to four days a week soon anyway (which she was keen on) so we could just look for someone else who is Ofsted registered for one day a week. Alternatively we could put our son in a day nursery that takes vouchers for one day a week. Our final choice (I guess) is to give our nanny notice and find someone else who will take vouchers for the full 3 or four days a week contract. The last option seems pretty brutal but my concern is that our son is getting attached to the nanny and he is gradually moving into the age when separation anxiety becomes an issue (he now 9.5 months old). Up till now leaving him with our nanny in the mornings has been no problem at all as he knows her and has known her since he was very young. However, I'm worried that our nanny is going to string us along for a few more months and then leave when his separation anxiety is at a peak. We were clear during our interview process we wanted someone who would commit for a year and we do feel that she taken the job without any long term plans to live in London. Her host is getting fed up with her sleeping on the sofa and wants her out but she has now told us doesn't want to rent only live 'on the cheap' in London while she saves for a deposit to buy. She had originally told me she was staying with a friend until she found somewhere to rent (as she was new to London) so the story has changed somewhat. If she can't keep up the sofa arrangement (unlikely) then living with her family is what she wants to do. That means either persuading one family member to take her in in London (they currently won't commit to this but might in the future she thinks and this is what she seems to be holding out for) or she has to go back home to the North. The nanny moving in with us on a long-term basis isn't an option as we value our privacy and space too much to want a live-in nanny. What would you do in this situation - find another nanny now or let this carry on in case she gets her accommodation sorted out (which would be great if she did) and find another solution for spending the childcare vouchers on a fourth day? It would be great to hear views from everyone!

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imananny · 14/07/2008 11:04

tbh i dont see any benifit in me as a nanny getting registered - and i def wouldnt pay the fees that would go with it

the arguement for it, is maybe in the future ONLY reg nannies will find work easily, but at the moment, i find getting jobs easy without having the hassle of being registered, and therefore no point in me doing so

there is no benifit to the nanny UNLESS the employers decide to spilt the savings/give a bonus etc

i agree your nanny is in breach of her contract, and if she def wont get registered, then you have no choice then to dismiss her and find a new nanny who will be aproved

Original poster
MGMidget · 13/07/2008 22:18

Oh and PS - her previous CRB check was based on her parent's address in the North so current address might be an issue for her CRB check.

OP posts:
Original poster
MGMidget · 13/07/2008 22:12

Hi imananny,

We've not made up our mind yet but I'm beginning to think we may look for another nanny but we're allowing a bit of a 'cooling off' period for both us and her to think about things rather than do anything hasty. She knows now that we've committed to vouchers and hence have got to do something so that may be enough to make her rethink. We did some research following the postings here to see if the vouchers have an expiry date. Unfortunately they do and its 12 months so too soon for us to use them for the part-time nursery our son will go to when he's two. However, twelve months does give us a bit of flexibility to delay a decision but not much if we decide to hire another nanny as it may take a while to get another one registered and I wouldn't want to be messed around a second time and end up wasting £2.5K of vouchers! We'd considered nursery or childminder for one day a week as an option - we might still try that and it'll give us a comparison with the nanny option. Wouldn't put my son in nursery for several days a week though at his current age. I don't want to encourage a nursery/childminder/nanny debate here - they all have their merits but we chose the more expensive nanny option to begin with as we felt it was the best for us and our baby when its for several days a week.

Our nanny is in breach of her contract so I'm feeling a little cool towards her at the moment. She's certainly not 'irreplaceable' after only 3 months in the job and she's already had nearly two weeks off sick in her first 3 months so not perfect!

I wondered though how many nannies are OFSTED registered or want to become OFSTED registered? Is it a rarity/something nannies can't see any benefit in or is it even seen as a burden for nannies (e.g. the possibility of being 'inspected'?) Maybe my nannies other nanny friends have been talking to her about the drawbacks of registration - if there are any? Also I did wonder if there were any issues with my nanny's current living arrangements. As she's living on someone's sofa I don't know if there's some sort of restriction in the lease saying accommodation for one person only or perhaps her host hasn't declared her for council tax? Don't think she's the type to have been arrested recently and she did have a valid CRB check done a few months ago unless it was forged! Gosh I could speculate for hours!

OP posts:
imananny · 12/07/2008 18:09

sorry to forgot to add

OP - what are you going to do - find a new nanny or let current nanny live in - also see why your nanny wont register

imananny · 12/07/2008 18:08

there are always going to be good nannies,cms and nurseries

and always going to be bad nannies, cms and nurseries

unfort a nursery is often the only childcare some poorer famillies can afford

as i am a nanny i would say this - but think nannies are the better option as we come to your house, so no getting yourself and child ready before going to work, the nanny should abide by the parents rules and parents have more of a say in what goes on, rather than with a cm who might have other children/school runs to fit in with

if you cant afford a nanny, then would def reconmend a cm, and fraid to say sending my child to a all day nursery would be the last option

bobbysmum07 · 12/07/2008 17:56

That's got to be really really rare in a group setting though. In my nursery, the staff don't even raise their voices to the kids, never mind about their hands. It's just unthinkable ... as it must be for most nannies. But in the privacy of someone's home, with no other adults around, it would be far far easier to get away with it.

And I bet the scenario you just described happens a hundred times more often with nannies than nursery workers.

nannyL · 12/07/2008 17:32

.... well I dont scream at 6 month old babies and slap them round the face with thier flannels when they dont eat their breakfast

and this is what was happening in front of MY eyes when i was collecting a child...

bobbysmum07 · 12/07/2008 17:27

How, with so many people around and parents/visitors in and out, etc?

nannyL · 12/07/2008 17:25

As for nursrays being safer

I can garentee that the children are safer with me as their nanny, than being in 2 specific nursarys round 'here'

Nursarys lie too, or change the truth about what happens in them

bobbysmum07 · 12/07/2008 17:18

Problem with nannies is that they're not really subject to scrutiny. Registering with Ofsted would go someway towards this, but a nanny will never be regulated to the extent that a nursery or even a registered childminder is. And your nanny doesn't want to be registered with Oftsed anyway. Why not?

Bottom line is you never really know a person. People lie. If I were you, I'd put the baby in a nursery. Far safer and better value for money.

woodstock3 · 12/07/2008 16:52

we just ofsted registered our nanny - the registration goes with them as others have said, BUt they do have to notify of change of address at which they are emplyed, so if she is thinking of leaving very soon it might make sense that she wouldn't want to go through with it.
but when was she last crb checked? i would want to be sure she wasn't trying to avoid the crb check..
as for insurance it is not uncommon at all for nannies not to be insured so far as i can tell. i have insurance as her employer but our nanny isn't insured herself.

frannikin · 09/07/2008 23:26

Nannies really should be insured. I never even considered working without it but there seem to be a surprising number working with no insurance or who don't even understand what insurance is there for.

HarrietTheSpy · 09/07/2008 11:55

I might have qualified my last statement a bit, in retrospect. As long as it's all still theoretical, I think there's not much you can do except worry about it when it actually happens. I hope that makes sense.

HarrietTheSpy · 09/07/2008 11:53

Also agree with Squiffy re the unstable lifestyle issues. This has been a feature of two out of the three nannies we have had, who were otherwise great. So all things being equal, I wouldn't rule her out for that reason,.

HarrietTheSpy · 09/07/2008 11:50

That's a very good point Squiffy makes re why she might be avoiding it.

I was also thinking, county court judgements (CCJs) which is less sinister than an arrest but I don't know if OFSTED would look at that. Or a previous conviction.

squiffy · 09/07/2008 10:30

I can clarify the dismissal front for you: you can make someone redundant within 2 years without having to pay them redundancy terms (though you must honour their notice period)

You should only dismiss someone for a 'fair' reason. However, if she has been working for you for less than a year then she cannot take any action against you even if you have not given a fair reason. You would only be at risk of any legal comeback if you dismissed her for a discrimnatory reason.

Anyway, given that she has 'frustrated' the contract by not complying with the agreement to become ofsted registered within a reasonable time then dismissing for this reason would probably still be ok even after a year.

If you do decide to dismiss you must still give a notice period (or pay in lieu) although I would think it perfectly ok to withold the cost of ofsted fees from her final check if she hasn't used the monies for the intended purpose.

In terms of what I reckon you should do, no particularly strong feelings one way or another: yes she is messing you around, but some people are just flakey like this - doesn't mean that they aren't great nannies. FWIW my current fab nanny changes her mind constantly about whether or not to move north to live with her boyfriend - it has been going on for months now, and I have learnt not to stress about it - when she leaves she leaves, I will stress then. Apart form that, it is her life, and I am just grateful that we have had her for far longer than I hoped.

BUT I don't understand the registration thing at all. I would be concerned that there may be an underlying reason why she is avoiding this.... why not tell her she doesn't have to pay it back, and see if she then jumps to get it done? If she doesn;t then I would suspect bigger issues (maybe she has been arrested recently or something?)

Original poster
MGMidget · 09/07/2008 09:35

PS - re this 'redundancy' point mentioned - I'm pretty sure 'redundancy' rights don't kick in until you've been employed in a job for a year.

OP posts:
Original poster
MGMidget · 09/07/2008 09:32

Hi imananny

You've got me worried about the nanny insurance thing now and its validity - I gave her a cheque for it which she is currently sitting on while she sorts herself out. May have to ask for it back!

Are most nannies already insured then? I got the impression when interviewing that none of those we interviewed had insurance!

OP posts:
1dilemma · 09/07/2008 01:11

Harriet is right about the vouchers, at least with the 2 companies I've used. But chack whether they have an expiry date first.

As far as your dilemma goes it seems to me like you're a bit hung up on the vouchers (understandably it is a lot of money) ask about that and take that out of the equation then break it down inot things like do you want ds to go to a nursery? COuld you cope wiht live-in nanny instead/how long for?
might help you decide what's really important

HarrietTheSpy · 08/07/2008 23:14

I think there is a way around the redundancy issue as she hasn't been working for you a year; but you will need to seek advice on this. At the end of the day, she agreed to something when she took the job (if I have this right) that she is now not willing to adhere to.

I realise this isn't the main point, but we had an issue with the childcare vouchers too - just call your HR department and tell them what's happened. I think you'll find they can accommodate you. At my company there is a 'change in circumstances' clause which means you can get out of these. I really don't think they will INSIST you use these for a year. What if one of you had been made redundant hence eliminating the need for childcare? I don't think any company is that inflexible.

frannikin · 08/07/2008 20:20

Why doesn't she have insurance anyway?

Yes OFSTED registering is a faff but it's the nanny who's registered and not the family so it's potentially a benefit to her if she moves jobs.

Shoshe · 08/07/2008 19:23

Not sure but I think she has to have a permenant home to pass a crb and ofsted check, as she hasnt, could be the reason that she dosnt want to go for it.

Call for nannynick he would know.

imananny · 08/07/2008 19:14

does seem weird that she doesnt want to be ofsted registered - though maybe paying the money back COULD be the reason why

BUT you shouldnt pay the nanny insurance fee (about £60) as if she ever did need to use it, her policy COULD be invalid as you had paid for it - conflict of interests iykwim - so she will need to pay for that

if the job is to go an extra day, then she will have more money - think you are quite in your rights to ask her what she is going to do,ie where going to live etc - if she says move back home, then you can employ another nanny and use vouchers

would it REALLY be a bad thing to have her live in, IF you get on well and your child has bonded with her?

FabioTheWhisperingCat · 08/07/2008 19:12

She's trying to emotionally blackmail you into asking her to move in with you.

nannyL · 08/07/2008 19:02

I think you are in a really triky position

I dont think legally you can make her redunanat then employ someone else to do her job...

Im sure their has to be a 3 months gap or she can claim unfair dismissal (unless there has been gross misconduct, which it doesnt sound ike there has been?)

TBH i think getting a new nanny would be the best decision for your circumstances, but you would need to discuss this very carefully with your nanny...

Perhaps you can get HER to make the decision to leave?

It sounds like a realy horrible situation to be in

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