Me again! Thinking about telling my newly employed nanny that she can no longer have the job!

The Op is a teacher right. Imagine if she went to aninterview in a school, was offered the job with set holidays, then turned around and said, oh by the way I am getting married in term time I need 2 weeks off, you (the school) will have to get supply in.)

The school would withdraw their offer.

The OP made it clear upfront there was NO term time holiday.

Therefore the OP is not being unreasonable to refuse the holiday request.

A school secretary I know who had been in the job for many years resigned as the head (quite resonably refused a holiday in term time request) It had been made very clear previously that no term time holidays were allowed.

Any employer is allowed to refuse holiday requests for any reason.

good point cake!!

OP has said several times she likes the nanny, and as I said its hard to find a good nanny( there are a few of us about) so if everything else is ok, then be good to talk

if she had mentioned the honeymoon, would you be more willing to try and work something out?

or if there was no honeymmon, would you still employ her - i know you mentioned she doesnt drive and would need to take bus to and from nursery (but as you offered her the job, and new this, ) it cant be THAT a big deal for her not to drive iykwim

or is it really that you think she MIGHT forget other things?

Silly question here but at any stage ziopin have you actually asked the nanny if she meant to tell you about the honeymoon, or just forgot to mention it! just that it worries me that you are getting all this advice from mumnetters but maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to go out for a coffee explain your worries, be honest and see if you could sort this out between the two of you, absolutely nothing is worth losing a good nanny for. I am a nanny and am starting a new job soon, while going for interviews i would have in my head all the things i would like to mention, but sometimes whist talking i would remember that i need to say something but the subject changes and i forget what i meant to mention earlier, after all we are all human. You obviously like her so give her a chance, have a chat and sort it out!!

I'm going to sit on the fence over this one and point out that if I were Ziopin I would just be glad I can make up my own mind, unhindered by any legal repercussions.

NKF, did you come up against anything like this? Ie paying notice or stuff? Just trying to work out what the legal repercussions would be.

Mum also mentioned the fact that this honeymoon is only 5 weeks after the new nanny starts (she doesn't start til Sept) - so the children would just be settling down with her and then would have a temp nanny in for 2 weeks then Mum at home for 1 week (half term) and the new nanny back again. Quite an upheaval for the little ones - it could unsettle tem quite a lot. May have been a bit different if this nanny had been around for 6 months or so but not this early into a new job.

well i still think that nannyL is missing the point as she is talking about the family not beeing able to find a cover for tha nannys honeymoon while the problem is the nanny not mentioning the honeymoon. also cant see why nannyL is repeating over and over what happened to her and that she had to have so and so much time off. irrelevant.

difficult to judge whether this nanny would otherwise be a perfect fit and you should try to work aroung her honeymoon or just let her go as this might be an attitude think. good luck whatever you choose to do.

Hi everyone getting heated in here this afternoon!

First off the bat, to the OP Ziopin, I work as a part time nanny and also offer an ad-hoc childcare service. I live in Bristol and if you are local I could possibly cover the dates that your potential new nanny could not work, for more info see my website www.hayleyevans.co.uk. Or as NannyL has suggested your potential new nanny may have some suitable nanny friends (still check references, paperwork etc regardless) that could cover the period of her honeymoon.

I do think that it is a tad unacceptable for her not to have mentioned the honeymoon maybe there were cross wires & she though it wouldn't be a problem. Either way is it something I think you should can her for? No. Good childcare is hard to find, and if you really like this nanny and your gut instinct is that she would be good for you and your family then you should ride it out. Obviously if she does something like this again then it is totally out of order but for now I would give her the benefit of the doubt.

Some people are saying that NannyL sounds quite angry and to be honest comments like, "I think your post reaffirms how cushioned some nannies are from the real world of working", by soapbox don't exactly help. First off implying that a nanny's job isn't real work! Secondly presuming that nanny's have no experience of what soap box would term a "real" job and lastly suggesting that NannyL is lucky to have her job when in reality she may be a terrific nanny all what happened to her was just a series of unfortunate events AND either way what happened to NannyL isn't a sackable offence - for a nanny or someone in a "real" job.

I think I would be a bit cross too if Soapbox had aimed that comment in my direction. Whilst I agree that some workers "have it good", I wouldn't say this perk is confined to the role of a Nanny also I would suggest that it is wise not to sneer at those that may have something more favourable in comparison to your lot. I'm sure soapbox didn't mean it offensively but in the world of the internet when all we have to go on is letters on a screen, it would do some people a bit of good to think before they type.

Rant over x

And, NannyL, parents will often bend over backwards for a good, well loved, well trusted nanny. But it's bad form to do what this girl did. She hasn't got the track record to ask for favours.

It's a little sneaky of her not to mention it till she was offered the job. I once had a nanny who did this to me. Not a honeymoon but a series of events that meant she couldn't do the days I needed (all had been well at the interview). I was prepared to go along with it, thinking of alternatives for those days. And then I thought, "Sod it. I'm up to my eyes in work right now. I don't need this." And I let her go.

The nanny wasn't honest in interview, bit of a crappy start. If she were already employed then YABU, as there is no proper employment I would find someone else.

i agree with you too misie sparkles...

and yes i DO think nanny should have been front abotu it a bit earlier but it is her wedding and probably planned months even years ago, and i think its a bit odd that you find the 'perfect' nanny and then dont want to offer her a job because she is getting married and has her honeymoon booked already!

Maybe the nanny isnt that perfect at all and its a good excuse to choose to look for another one? (a fair point IMO) in which case doing so before contracts are sigend etc would be the best time for both parties.

I think most parents who have (or have found) a super nanny would do anything to keep them though.....

and what if a while doen the line she gets pregnant and wants some time of for maternity leave? what then?

I think not employing someone because you cant cover their 2 weeks leave 4 MONTHS in advance is a bit silly because there are times when you are likely to need cover so it might be a good oppertunity to work out how you would cope if / when it happens again

(can i just add given she has 12 weeks holiday i dont think she needs to be paid for her 2 weeks hoenymoon)

true missiesparkles

but a wedding/holiday must be easier to cover as the mb has notice,in this case 4mths to find someone for 2 weeks

in nannyl case, obv the car accident wasnt planned and therefore her mb needed to make childcare arrangements there and then iykwim

i do find it hard that the nanny didnt mention her plans/get excited etc at interview

if she took those 2 weeks off unpaid,would that make a difference as you are offereing 10 weeks hols anyway, and then the money would cover a temp/friend etc - but obv you still have the same problem that the children wouldnt know this temp for 2 weeks

I have been a temp nanny and to try and set your mind at rest, I have gone to many famillies with different aged children from 4mth babies to 13yrs, babies/toddlers are happy as long as they get play/fed etc

an older child would prob enjoy having someone new for a few days, and sure would tellyou if any problems with the temp

NannyL, whilst I feel that your point is 100% valid (and offer my sympathy for what happened) I think that the run of time off you experienced was not only exceptional circumstances, they were unplanned.

A wedding/honeymoon is in no way unplanned, it is quite the opposite. No-one is saying the nanny shouldn't have time of for it but its a stretch of the imagination to believe she only 'suddenly' remembered her honeymoon when the job had been offered to her.

bozza...

the point i want to make (and not sure i made it that well) is that when you have a nanny there will (probably) be times when your nanny cant work, for example i was involved in a big car crash and then had to have 2 weeks off, just 2 weeks before id been off for most of the week with my dad (and the week before that was my annual leave holiday (their choice)) so as parents you need to be able to work out some form of cover for those type of situations when at very short / no notice at all, your nanny cant be there.

(in 5 weeks i worked 1 week & 2 days!, but the 1st week off of that was annual leave, and none of us knew what lie ahead)

NannyL you seem to live in a dreamworld as to how easy it is to find alternative childcare for children. I find it really stressful and have 3 weeks of it to sort out this summer, although fortunately only 9 days because I am part time. But I am lucky in that DH and I can take some of that time off. But even so I am stressing about (I am due to TUPE transfer to a new company on 1 Aug) and sending my holiday request off to several people to get it agreed before my colleague resigns. And I have booked more days than I hopefully need in the theory that it will be easier to cancel than book them at a later date.

nbee - I agree swings and roundabouts

bossykate - once you have interviewed and found a nanny you like, then would you not trust her judgement if she needed time off due to holiday/sickness BUT could find you a reliable responsible nanny who she has prob known for years to help you out?

we all try to help in my area/network of friends, it is that or the mb take a day off work, or use a temp nanny through agency which the children DEF wouldnt know

imo using a person that the children prob know,must be better than getting a temp in?Ziopin, if you used a nannyies friends to cover when nanny was on honeymoon,then they wouldnt be strangers to your children?

If you really cant see a way through this, then yes tell the nanny now, but think you said your job starts in sept, so you may not be able to find a nanny who can start then, as we are nearly in july, and by the time you have put out feelers/answered ads etc, interviewed nannies, checked ref and then offered the job,it will be another few weeks

most nannies I know have 2months notice and may not be able to start when you need someone

Message withdrawn

But with a nursery you end up having to take off time from work when your lo isunder the weather - or organising childcare so you can go to work.

Swings and roundabouts really

You just have to hope you get a cm or nanny that is not off often. In 10 years as a childminder I had 3 days - though I sometimes worked when ill and we would have a quiet day with a dvd and rest in the afternoon.

Nannies are rarely off that often - at least, I'm rarely off work.

However when a nanny or childminder is off work for whatever reason, it can cause major problems. If you use a nursery you don't get that issue, as the nursery is responsible for finding alternative staff (such as temps from agencies).

Well you are all confirming my belief that I was right to go for a Childcare environment where if someone is off there are others to care for DD. In many ways I would love a Nanny but I have to work PT and could not do that if I had a Nanny that was off all the time.

I have no one else so need reliability. I really sympathise with the OP.

Also I agree with Flowery. Breach of contract but you have a good reason and these things usually go no further.

Agree with ingles2, its not the holiday timing so much as the fundamental principal of not being upfront.

If thats her before she has even started, then what next.

So agree with nannynick, tell her she can't have it because it directly contradicts her response to one of your interview questions, and see what she says.

I don't get the nanny network thing either. Mind you, I'm not good at social networking. Suppose it may be handy as a backup, but parents would want to meet the backup nanny wouldn't they. You can't just assume that because someone is working as a nanny, that they are suitable or sufficiently experienced, yet alone cleared to work with children.

Ziopin you don't have to give an employee time off... the employee can request time off, which you can deny. So as you can't work around it, you can deny the time off, leaving the ball in the nannies court.

crikey! i've always had a sneaking suspicion that there are some nannies with huge sense of entitlement out there...

one thing i've never "got" about nanny/nanny employer culture is this whole nanny network thing. if i were to employ a nanny, i'd check refs, possibly CRB, certificates etc. but then i'd be expected to be happy if the nanny left my dc with one of her friends, whom i hadn't ref checked etc. why on earth would i be happy with that having gone to such lengths to check out my own nanny in the first place?

agree that z should decline the holiday and leave the ball in the nanny's court.

Non disclosure of the honeymoon I feel was underhanded, perhaps even bordering on deception. If I were the employer, I too would be worried. If they hid that, what else may they hide in future.