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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Do I just grin and bear this? Is there another way around it? Feel very unhappy.

142 replies

ReverseThePolarity · 23/06/2008 12:36

Wasn't sure where to put this.

We are very lucky to have mil as ds' almost-free childminder.

I've always been very into "attachment" style parenting; you know, slings, co-sleeping, that sort of thing. Call it pfb syndrome if you like but that's how I'd like ds to be raised.

Mil always said she agreed with me over the "Unconditional Parenting" style of child-raising (as per Alfie Kohn) in addition to AP-type concepts and said she wished she'd done it with her own kids.

So I was confused when some of the things she did included:
Ditching the sling and getting an outward facing buggy (i.e. facing away from mil so no interaction)
Giving him juice / tinned baked beans & sausage / "baby" crisps (you know those "Organix" ones) etc to eat
Putting him in disposable nappies
Shouting "NO!" at him very loudly over spurious "misbehaviours" (he is 14 m/o)
Give him sugary tea from her cup
Smoking near him (I always knew she smoked but had assumed she would do it away from him)

And now, she has got him some of those kiddie reins. I am particularly upset because I really can't stand these things. I know opinion on MN is a bit divided over them but I can't bear them. But apparently, "he really creates when he's in the buggy" (that's the outward facing buggy mentioned above) so she wants to let him walk but have him on the reins. She told me today "I know you hate them but I need them and that's that" basically.

BUT having said all the above, she does adore him. She never lets him cry himself to sleep (the most important thing to me) and apart from the odd shouted "NO!" which does my head in, she is very gentle with him. He has one continuous caregiver during the day who really does love him.

Dh of course is no help. "We can't say anything as she is doing it for (almost) free". Besides he thinks I am too soft on ds anyway and it will do him good to have a bit of discipline etc. etc.

Is there anything I can do? Do I have to grin and bear this? I can't afford not to work and in the current economic climate need the job security of permanent office work.

I know you might all accuse me of pfb syndrome and the comments about mil's choices might even get your backs up if that's how you decide to parent. But you must understand, if you've made that decision, it's your decision. This isn't my decision, it's someone taking it out of my hands.

Feel quite upset, possibly irrationally, and please excuse any cruddy spelling that results from this!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
getbackinyouryurtjimjams · 23/06/2008 14:55

What do you think you could ask her to do if you paid her though? You couldn't ask her to use a sling if you paid her. I don't think you could ask her not to use reins if you paid her (if she feels they're needed for safety). I don't think you could insist she uses washables if you paid her.

You could maybe have more say over food (if you provided it).

But if she's caring for him in her own home she would have to become a childminder and get registered and go on courses and be ofsted inspected. I suspect she'd tell you to forget it!

ReverseThePolarity · 23/06/2008 14:52

Twiglett, I do think you can combine AP and being a WOHM. Sears certainly says it's possible anyway in The Baby Book... about as much babywearing / co-sleeping / other general bonding stuff as possible when you are with them to counteract any other care-style when they're not around (although he has apparently been known to write prescriptions to nursery caregivers to carry babies in slings!)

I do think though, on reading everyone's replies, that I don't have much right to be asking her to care for ds as I do... but I do also think that if I paid her, I might have more say.

Dh is dead against paying her... says we can't afford it but we can... he just doesn't want to cut back on anything.

So really I need to talk to dh and get him to understand why she needs paying.

OP posts:
getbackinyouryurtjimjams · 23/06/2008 14:45

You see even if you were paying someone I don't think you could dictate that they use a sling for a 14 month old (if you were paying me and asked me to use a sling I'd say no- I've put all my young babies in slings, but not at 14 months- I find it too uncomfortanble - and I'll happily march across the moors for hours with a rucksack on my back- but a 14 month old .....no).

Nappies - some nurseries/childminders let you use reusables, some don't - and you either choose or not to use their service depending on how important it is to you.

Reins- this was my point earlier- you might think he's safe without them, but if she doesn't feel that he is and you ban reins. Then what? Does he stay inside all day. I think any nursery/childminder would dictate that sort of safety thing really and if they felt reins were needed would use them. Personally I'd rather my child was in reins than squaking to get out of a buggy (and hats off to your MIL- it's is far easier to push a moaning child in a buggy than walk at a snail's speed with reins.

The 'no' thing. if he's happy to see her I doubt it' s registering.

I personally think children do really well brought up by people who have different rules/ways of doing things. Do ensure that someone's practices are safe (so eg complain about the smoking). But if they are then I think you need to leave them to get on with it really. If her way is too far out of kilter with yours then you have the choice to look after him yourself or move him, but I think you will struggle to find someone to do exactly what you want with the above list unless you employ a nanny (and they cna bring their own ideas as well!)

Divastrop · 23/06/2008 14:41

d'oh,x-posts.

defo have a word about the smoking.it sounds like she is creeping towards smoking in the house with him there which is not on whatsoever.

Divastrop · 23/06/2008 14:38

when you say 'smokes around him',do you mean in the house or outside?is she able to leave him in a safe place and go to smoke outside,away from him?

agree with everyone else re.the reins/buggy issue(although,as you know,dd3 has been forward-facing since birth).

what really matters is that she loves him.as others ahve said,you cant put a price on that.

ReverseThePolarity · 23/06/2008 14:36

Thank you all for bringing some perspective to the issue.

I think tbh the reins thing is a bit like "the straw that broke the camel's back" and I think maybe there's a bit of guilt mixed in, feeling it should be me who is looking after him, but it isn't, iyswim.

It was mainly because of everything she has done, she knows that personally I can't bear those reins. Have offered to buy different buggy for her but no she wants that one.

Fwiw, when ds is with me on journeys he is in my mei tai on my back in a high carry which enables him to see over my shoulder and nose around. He is only about 20 lbs, light for his age. But I do understand mil might have problems (although this is a woman who did her own decking in the back garden, so she's hardly fragile!) with that.

It's just the reins - well, I just don't get them. He's hardly a fast mover and surely at 14 m/o you wouldn't have him out of the buggy (or in my case sling) on a busy road anyway? And surely if he's always "creating" in the buggy, but he doesn't with the sling, isn't it less about the walking and more about wanting the contact? I do think it's because when he's in it he can't see mil ... so he panics a bit. I just don't like reins. I can see from what some of you have said that a boistrous two or three year old might need them on a busy road... but he is a petit 14 m/o who moves relatively slowly!

The smoking - dh doesn't see it as a big problem, because of course she always smoked around him and he's fine (although until two years ago was a 20 a-day smoker himself) but it's this; she used to never smoke near him at all and always smoked outside even if he wasn't there. Then she started smoking inside when he wasn't there, but not when he was, and now if they are both in the garden she has a fag in one hand and him in the other... and often she forgets herself and walks into the house fag in hand when he's there... what's next? Smoking in the house around him?

The food and drink I suppose I'm prepared to let go, because he eats so well when at home and still gets lots of breastmilk. And has his teeth cleaned every night (might up it to twice a day).

Nappies I guess I can leave (although obviously annoyed me as I actually had bought additional to give her, and of course would have been doing washing/drying myself).

The "no" - well I'm not a big fan of "no" in general, or at least, it's overuse, but it's more about the shouting of it. He's too young to be deliberately naughty and shouting at him just upsets him.

Ideally I think what I'd like to do is pay her a decent amount, rather than expenses, and then I feel I would have more ability to approach her over issues like this. I have suggested her registering as a CM, then she can get a portion of our tax credits too. But she won't do that.

I think you are right with choosing my battles but I feel unable to do this unless we're actually paying her properly. Now I am in a perm job (was temping last three months for barely over min wage) I think we can afford it... I will speak to dh. Of course he will be dead against it... but there you go.

OP posts:
motherhurdicure · 23/06/2008 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

rookiemater · 23/06/2008 14:04

I can't really add much to what other people have said here.

The only way that you could get any other form of childcare where they followed all of your requirements would be a nanny as Cms and nurseries have other children to look after and whilst they could accomodate a lot of what you are looking for, they too may want to use reins when out for a walk due to multiple children and may feed a diet which is less than ideal.

stealthsquiggle · 23/06/2008 14:03

PMSL Effie - 'reigns' grates on my nerves as well but I never have the guts to say so.

BradfordMum · 23/06/2008 14:01

I think you need to think carefully about how you can show your MIL what a terrific job she's doing for free, rather than whinge on here about so much.
As far as I'm concerned, if you ask her to look after your child, then she HAS to use her ways to the best of her ability.

Seriously - if I were your MIL, and you sat me down with this list - I think I'd slot you one!

I seriously agree with Twigletts post.

I'm going now before I say somthing I'd really regret.

Aaaarrhhhhggggggggg

EffiePerine · 23/06/2008 13:58

not just you RB!

Ripeberry · 23/06/2008 13:57

OK, that's me told off! [blush}

Hassled · 23/06/2008 13:56

You've had lots of good advice here - picking your battles being at the root of it all. The only thing you have reasonable cause to complain about is the smoking, and thta's the battle you should pick.

EffiePerine · 23/06/2008 13:55

pedant alert, but REINS

I am getting zaps to the head every time I see 'reigns'...

not important in the grand plan I realise

Ripeberry · 23/06/2008 13:50

The smoking thing is not on at all, but the reigns are for the safety of the child.
My 2 dds have had reigns as it was either that or stay in a pushchair as they would run all over the place and our pavements here are very narrow with no room for error.
We've used reigns whilst walking in Snowdonia and it enabled our 2yr old to climb almost to the top of Snowdon without falling smack onto the rocks!
Reigns do not mean the child will look like a dog, it means safety!

MsDemeanor · 23/06/2008 13:50

In my experience 14month olds hate facing you in a buggy. They want to see the world!

Twiglett · 23/06/2008 13:48

surely 'attachment parenting' demands the parent is the main carer and not another person

I'm sure you are upset but I really don't think you can dictate to that nature that a child should be reared in such an incredibly time-consuming way to someone who doesn't actually buy into it that much

The stuff your MIL is doing is no doubt the stuff she did with her own babies and she loves him

I'd be grateful and I'd pick my battles .. the ones I could win .. like the smoking (no-brainer) and possibly the food (although that'll be tricky I imagine)

moshie · 23/06/2008 13:44

Looking after someone else's child is a massive responsibility. If your mil needs the reassurance of using reins to keep your child safe then I wouldn't say anything. As for the buggy, why don't you provide her with a rear facing one, with the suggestion that he might be happier if he can see her.
I'd provide food too if you're not happy with what she gives him.
It's the smoking that would be my main greivance here, I think it's totally unacceptable to smoke around children.
I think you need to have a chat with her, but I wouldn't bring all the problems up at once or she'll feel like she's being critisised too much.

imananny · 23/06/2008 13:37

agree smoking is a no no!!

she should be able to respect your wishes with this!!!

i wouldnt carry a 14mth old in sling, buggy or reins or holding hands

have to say outward buggies are nicer for the child to see new people/views/dogs etc

child can see your face anytime

drinking sugary tea - WTF?

nappies and food should be your choice

unfort as mil is doing out of love and not for money, then you have to decide is it a big enough problem to think about using paid childcare

shreddies · 23/06/2008 13:36

Of course smoking is unacceptable, but I honestly don't think you will find childcare that will fulfil all your needs as described above, unless you were to find a nanny who really got what you wanted. Certainly no childminder or nursery would be able to do it

AtheneNoctua · 23/06/2008 13:33

I would sacrifice a whole lot more than what you have listed in return for (almost) free childcare -- except the smoking. At least she is not feeding him snack a jacks.

Regarding the reigns, my number one rule of parenting is "safety First!" It comes before freedom. It comes before education. And it comes before the child's happiness (within reason). If those reigns keep your DS safe, then I think asking her not to use them would be very unwise. Likewise, if my toddler does not want to wear a seatbelt too bad it keeps him safe and he will wear it or I will stop the car.

Free childcare... we should all be so luck!!

unknownrebelbang · 23/06/2008 13:26

Smoking - needs to be dealt with.

The food and tea is something I would consider discussing with her, depending on how often/how long she has him.

Don't have a problem with him being told no, obviously it doesn't need to be shouted.

You have to proceed carefully, and given the circumstances - and the fact that she obviously adores him - then you have to accept that she will do some things her way, to a degree. He is her grandson, as well as providing you with virtually free childcare.

If you're not happy with this, then you need to reconsider the childcare.

snickersnack · 23/06/2008 13:22

I'm not sure that the food and nappy issues go hand in hand with an AP approach. It's probably fair to say that a lot of AP parents do use re-usables and do make their own (organic) food, but I think that is more reflective of a general approach to life than it being more or less "AP". I would see if you can negotiate on these if it upsets you - maybe she just puts the dirty reusables in a bucket for you to take home, or you provide more of the food? Both could be a convenience thing - no way would my mother contemplate using reusables when looking after either of mine, so I didn't push the issue. But I don't think doing these things makes her less "AP"-like, if that's your concern.

You are totally entitled to challenge her on the smoking. That's a big no as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't want anyone looking after my children to smoke while doing so.

The reins and the buggy I can understand, though I can see why you are upset. But if she's older, the sling might be uncomfortable. The reins I'm sure are a generational thing - we all had reins, and you don't see them very often (probably because children stay in buggies until they are much older...) but if she's anxious about safety you may have to concede that point. How long does he spend in the buggy? If it's only brief spells, I wouldn't make a big deal over it.

With the "no" - I struggle with this because although I would say I have a broadly AP approach to things I do think "no" has a place. Depends how loudly you shout, and why you're shouting, but I don't think that an AP mindset means letting your children do what they like. They do need guidance and "no" is a handy short hand for "stop doing that right now and I'll explain to you why I don't want you to do it when you've stopped".

Apart from the smoking, and possibly the "no" thing, these all sound minor and/or negotiable to me. If you're happy with her approach apart from that (and it sounds like you are), I think you may have to learn to live with them - I doubt you'd find alternative childcare that met your criteria, apart from possibly a nanny. The love and affection and one-to-one care in my view outweighs the negatives.

But, if you're going to continue with the arrangements as they stand you absolutely need to make sure that you are dealing with these issues as they arise rather than letting them fester, or hitting her with a long "shopping list" of requests and complaints all in one go as then she'll feel like you've got hundreds of complaints. How long has she been looking after your son? Could you suggest a regular time to have a catch up about arrangements and so on, which you can both use as an opportunity to discuss what is and isn't working (focusing on the good stuff as well as the bad?). Bit formal, but might work.

Kewcumber · 23/06/2008 13:22

also try to imagine any childcare that will treat your child exactly as you do... not going to happen.

Piffle · 23/06/2008 13:20

smoking is my non negotiable. I even refuse my mum having my kids to hers and she adores them.
you should be able to control his diet, she should offer him what you provide. The odd treat as agreed.
the reins. I hate them end of but if she needs them I'm not sure you can argue... And pushchair... Ds2 faces outwards now despite having chance to face in which he now hates. He was not AP but very close sling carried bf on demand etc

The no thing aaarggghhh am asking DP atm to desist.
as they grow they learn different carers have different ways.

I would advise pick the issues you care most about and battle/compromise those first?

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