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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Help! What should au pairs get in London? URGENT

380 replies

majorstress · 17/01/2005 09:00

I'm paying £80 pocket money, all food, own room with new tv, dvd and radio. 3 x 3 hours English classes a week, just paid £137 for 12 weeks. Original agreement was this would rise to £100 this month, but hours were from 2:30 to 8 pm, 2 kids one at school one at FULLTIME nursery. She has talked me into letting her knock off at 6:30, and to let her off most of the housework which is ironing. The other housework is done to the minimum, very passive and helpless about everything, doesn't seem to know how to change a bed, or hoover, or cook despite talking about it all the time. I am finding myself working non-stop doing housework as well as a full time job, and failing dismally at coping with either, with continual colds and a back injury. Now she wants me to honor the £100 part of the deal. Am I a mug? a slavedriver? Should I find someone else? Quit my job? Kill myself?

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Uwila · 19/01/2005 10:19

okay, is the budget an issue? I think you said it was. Would you consider getting a live-in nanny and dropping the nursery? The money you save on nursery might make up the difference financially for you to move from pathetic au pair to responsible nanny. Of course moving to nanny does guarantee competance.

I realise you may have the toddler in nursery because it also functions as a place for early schooling/socialisation. It might be worth putting her name down on a few local nurseries just in case you might want to pull her our of full time nursery, get a nanny. And then nanny could take her to/from school as well as the other duties you have listed.

I think you could ask a nanny/au pair/whatever you want to call her all of the duties you listed (including ironing and definitely including swimming) if the kids are both off to school for a few hours a day.

I now have a live-in nanny who looks after my toddler from 7:00am until 7:00pm. I get dd up and she hangs out with me while I dress for work. Nanny takes over at 7:00, gives her breakfast, gets her dressed, and is responsible for her entire day. I arrange activities for them (Tumble Tots, swimming (Nanny is responsible for providing her own swim suit), etc.). DD is fed and back in her pyjamas when I arrive home at 7:00. Nanny also keeps the house tidy of DDs things, and does the whole family's laundary, including ironing. She does not put it away, though. She is not a cleaner and does not vacuum, dust, scrub floors, etc. But, she does keep the kitchen clean and this includes doing my dishes from the night before in the morning.

If I don't include the value of her room and board, I pay her less than I paid a childminder. If I do include the value of rent, it's about the same.

Like you, I require someone to get DD ready for her day, and keep the house in respectable order. I wouldn't trade it for the world. But, as you have obviously learned the hard way, as I did, a bad au pair / nanny can me a fantastic amount of work in terms of managing them. And, it is VERY difficult to manage someone whom you are not there to observe and supervise.

majorstress · 19/01/2005 09:52

I need mon and tues 1 kid got ready and taken to school (3 min walk) to school, and Wed through Fri 1 kid to school and one to nursery (15 min walk in buggy). I need school pickup 5 days at 3:30 and nursery 3 days at 12 (I and DH have been doing much of this, but no longer can cope with work demands). I get home about 5 pm. DDs are 2 and 4 and easy by all my friend's standards. Duties are to mind and interact with children, take each to one activity a week even just the park or library (not in place yet) keep house in order and clean, 4-5 loads of laundry per week to be dried sorted folded and put away etc etc, basically I only want to iron, shop for food and make dinner. I live in Mill Hill north London. I would like to replace her by easter as she is going home then anyway for a break (already went home for xmas and made me pay extra for her fare so she could return by the time school started). I want a live in to help with the housework but primarily to get the kids ready in the morning, if I have to do it I will be in traffic for 4 hours a day instead of 2 with my current 8 to 4 shift my boss has agreed to. I cannot do this. DH also cannot cover his staututory hours if he has to drop a kid.

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Uwila · 19/01/2005 09:33

Oh, majorstress, I so feel for you. Do you pay her at the begining or end of month? I pay mine at the end of the month just in case she ever runs off mid month and leaves me in a crunch, then at least I don't have to pay her because she didn't give me the contractually obligated 4 weeks notice.

I was going to type my story of my first au pair, who sounds remarkably like yours. And, my state of mind was astonishingly like yours. I just couldn't bear the stress of it all on top of working full time. I got an au pair to make my life easier, not so I could take care of her too. So, she went home rather abruptly one day. Anyway, I won't go into the details just now because I think what you need is advice and support and not to listen to my story of personal crisis.

Remind me of your situation (I want to help):
1- hours required (how many total and what days/times)?
2- Ages of kids?
3- Her duties?
4- Where are you?
5- How soon do you need her?
6- Does it have to be a nanny/au pair or would you consider childminder?

majorstress · 19/01/2005 09:00

Communication, communication, communication! A lot of younger women ARE too diffident and afraid to look stupid, so don't admit they do not understand (I did that at this age too); or maybe they don't understand that they don't understand, which is how I flunked maths once. But sympathies aside, my day off and "quality time" with my girls yesterday consisted of a) taking dd1 for MMR b)dd2 insisting Mummy SIT DOWN HERE here between them while they watched tv-I immediately fell asleep sitting up. I woke up after 10 minutes and started ironing again. this is what I went through 6 cycles of IVF, 4 pregnancies and many thousands of pounds to do?

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Ameriscot2005 · 19/01/2005 06:46
majorstress · 18/01/2005 23:43

Have updated greataupair profile, with a much sharper description to scare away the woolly ones, but worried she will see it! and leave without notice. I took off the photo which was lovely, and changed my name a bit. oh well who cares anyway, really?

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majorstress · 18/01/2005 21:30

Further update from majorstress avenue... I noticed some ads for APs in the newsagent window and they are offering a bit more than this for a local job and a lot more for two jobs in the neighboring posher area which is closer to central London. The children are behaving better, which I think I (or flylady) have to take the credit for somewhat, giving me time to explain and demonstrate things again and again in words of one syllable to AP. Now I realise that when she says "yes, of course I understand", this is actually Hungarian for "the what the flying "£$% is the mad cow on about now?" AP is working harder, as am I to immediately point out and illustrate mistakes, and making her repeat back what she will do from now on, (like I do if my 4 year old is really naughty or dangerously daft, about once a month in her case), and I got some interesting revelations like admitting that yes my DH did explain AND physically show her 10 weeks ago that I wanted the shirts hung up straight out of the dryer on the hooks and hangers provided RIGHT NEXT to it, you don't even have to take a single step, and not left in a heap making an extra 45 minutes ironing every week. He had grumbled when I asked him to show her, so I crossly assumed he hadn't bothered, our relationship is suffering greatly under the stress and we have barely a second to speak each night, or often not at all. But tonight she came in from her workout at the gym, as I asked, with the details of the swim class I want her to take dd2 to (this is a 10 minute walk from our house, and dd2 LOVES LOVES LOVES swimming). Before xmas she said she forgot her swimming costume, and when I offered her one of mine (same size), refused without even seeing it. (It wasn't even the maternity one! So stupidly I let her off swimming until after xmas as I was too hassled to organise it, and yesterday I told her it was now HER task to organise as she is there every day anyway. Now she says in a mopey way she can't go swimming because she caught an infection once. I.e. she is not actually prepared to do this task. I am furious , it was one of the main stipulations of the job that I want my kids taken swimming and I rejected everyone that said they couldn't or didn't want to do this task including lots who were better in every other way. I also noticed that the contract stipulates ironing, so again I let her off when I had said it in writing and should have said ok, goodbye, THIS is what the job entails so I want someone who will do it for me. THAT IS IT, SHE IS GONE AS SOON AS I FIND SOMEONE ELSE. OK, I'm off to greataupair again, wish me luck!!!

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Uwila · 18/01/2005 12:10

Oh my gosh! I started to read this thread yesterday, but didn't have time to get through. I've just managed now though. I can definitely relate to your troubles. I will be back later to give you a summary. But, I will say now that in the end, that crap au pair was sent home. I now have a new one who is wonderful. Both were found on greataupair.com.

Be back later...

majorstress · 17/01/2005 23:52

I think it is a lot to pay, but before DD1 started school I was paying over £400 a month for nursery care just for her alone and £80 a week for cleaning (I didn't do any housework myself at all) and ironing. So that is where I am coming from, it is still less money and not having to take and collect her from school each day is a lot easier for me with my back than 2 kids at two sites from nursery was. Having a live-in AP has also allowed me to put dd2 into a local Montessori now 3 days a week which runs mornings only, which suits dd2 very well indeed as she needs some firmness and structure that is lacking in the work facility. I had such a hard time getting an AP at all that I got the impression I have to pay this well to get and retain an adequate person. Hopefully I can either find the strength to mould her into a decent worker or ease her out on good terms once I have got things under control again. I have recently joined Flylady (yikes! what have I become) and have begun to enjoy organizing and doing it myself in some ways, I actually find ironing therapeutic to my amazement. I never did it before. My work involves too much sitting at a PC these days so standing up and doing chores actually eases the pain (bedrest makes it worse). Also the rest of the family including AP has a lot more respect for me and our home the past few weeks, as they see me working so hard to make it nice for all of us, and gradually taking control again as my youngest leaves babyhood behind (boo hoo), it is a year since we moved to this house and it is slowly taking shape as OUR place, and both children are suddenly maturing into wonderful humans before our eyes. (Apart from the cleaning frenzy, dd1 loudly praised the new recipe I cooked from the fresh ingredients I had rashly bought-they were all about to reach the sell-by date, so no resorting to the freezer tonight!) AP was exhorted by dd1 to try it tomorrow-I usually keep leftovers for her as she doesnt want to eat before her workout, understandably.

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ChicPea · 17/01/2005 22:50

Hurray!!!

binkie · 17/01/2005 22:24

Yes, very good luck. Keep us updated!

IloveMarmite · 17/01/2005 22:08

Well done for talking. Good luck and I hope she bucks up her act for you.

majorstress · 17/01/2005 22:05

Well here is what happened. I got dds setlled in bed with difficulty at 8:40 (late for them), after doing the bath story routine on my own. Then she came out of her room and I sat her down at the (clean!) dinner table. I asked her to list 3 things she liked, and she came up with them, trying to get the 3 things she didn't like was pretty fruitless so I listed 2 things she's asked for like, more money, and to borrow my London Transport card at regular intervals. I wrote it on the contract. Then I said I was generally happy with her performance with the children but my previous au pair did all the cleaning and ironing as well, she was astonished that I'd had one before. I said I could no longer work from 6 am to midnight 7 days a week and I needed more work from her. She said she could work until 7 pm, and I had told her she could leave at 6, which I denied. I said no raise unless she did more work, and proposed she worked on Friday too which covers all the extra hours missing in the evenings. My working-at-home on Friday instigated in September isn't working and I am falling further and further behind at work too. She began to get upset, thinking I meant no raise but more work, until I said I would give her a raise to £100 but I had to have a LOT more help. She was so delighted with the raise that she thought she wouldn't get 2 minutes earlier, she tearfully thanked me for being such a great mom (gawd) then asked for the £16 textbook money I had promised. I know I shouldn't pay so much, though I did say no way am I paying for her transportation as well, and I am going to insist on much more help and make more tick-lists for her to complete. I did that with the previous ones, but they didn't need them at all despite worse English. Some people are just efficient and some are not, and some have it thrust upon them (me!). Maybe i can get the old one back to show her how to clean, thats a good idea. I tried to get a cleaner 2 weeks ago but she didn't show up for the interview and I lost the will to live (and DH looked at our bank account). When I get thinkgs organised, I will decide if she is actually earning this money and probably calmly find another better one for the summer.

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Ameriscot2005 · 17/01/2005 21:25

Totally agree, Marmite. The whole point of an au pair is to make your life easier (helping hand concept), and you do not owe them a living so get rid of anyone who isn't pulling their weight!

IloveMarmite · 17/01/2005 21:17

I have to be honest, but having had two utterly disasterous aps, I would take the sane route and ask her to find another family.

If it is giving you more stress, then she is not doing her job and helping you. Why put up with it?

binkie · 17/01/2005 21:14

Just popping back in to say I had another thought. Since you aren't of course going to pay her that extra £20/week, but presuming you've budgeted for it, in the next couple of weeks perhaps you could find some genuinely helpful active person to come in of a Saturday and do 2-3 hours of cleaning for you? Not as a regular thing, as obviously you shouldn't be paying twice over the long-term, but just as a clearing of the air/lightening of your load and perhaps just a little as a role model for Ms Passive? Might open her eyes to the requirements of the job too, as she will see where "her" money is going!

I say this because we did find exactly that sort of person on gumtree - as a casual cleaner, which is maybe easier to find than an au pair.

ChicPea · 17/01/2005 20:53

MajorStress: sympathies. Having people to help you in the home is a very steep learning curve. What makes it difficult is the fact that a) you may not have any managerial exp b) they are living in your house c) they are looking after your children (when you are not there) and possibly d) language problems.
I would sit down with her and go over what was initially agreed re: duties and hours. If you have a list then great, if not, then make one in advance to show her during your chat. You could say that you did agree to pay her x at the beginning and increase it to x but things have not worked out as you had hoped as she is now no longer doing x, y & z (you could cross them out as you say it so it really sinks in) and is finishing at 6.30pm and not 8pm. So effectively a reduction in duties. Explain to her that you work a very intense day and need help and that's why you took on an au pair. You could say (depending how the chat goes) that you will review things in 3 months (?) but she needs to improve or that she should find another family as you feel you need to find another au pair who will honour her duties. (You could if you wish say that at the time she started your mind was on settling your dd at school, etc which for you was a worrying time and for that reason you didn't think things through properly before you agreed).
You could also say that if she doesn't do her duties, somebody has to and when you get home at the end of a busy day you want to spend quality time with your children not spend it doing housework which should already be done.
Re: the meals thing, I would insist that the AP eats with the children or with the family so that there aren't lots of "sittings" as and when she likes it, ie this is what we eat and at this time, etc.
It may be that you can't work things out with her in which case you will have to start again. BUT you will have learnt from this and you will be firmer in future. I'm not sure of the going rate, but I thought it was £60-£70 without paying for classes. You have been very generous IMO.
Don't let yourself get wound up anymore. Take control and you will feel so much better.

weightwatchingwaterwitch · 17/01/2005 20:17

majorstress, can't help with the ap issue but your dds sound like absolute sweeties!

IloveMarmite · 17/01/2005 20:13

I wouldn't bother worrying about politics in your au-pair decisions. They don't really give a stuff I'm sure.

majorstress · 17/01/2005 20:10

It has to do with the tories in the sense that they will use it to get votes, I do know labour is in power and they don't want to lose any.

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IloveMarmite · 17/01/2005 20:10

You lucky thing!! You are doing a good job of training them well

majorstress · 17/01/2005 20:08

Yes I know about visas because the English school has noticed the sudden shut off of students from non-eu countries.

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majorstress · 17/01/2005 20:07

Thanks all, felliing a bit calmer now, apart from having to absolutley INSIST that she tick off the list I spent an hour making on friday and put up on the kitchen wall. As I was struggling to get the nearly-cold meal on the table, she said she did didn;t need to do the ticking off, because everything except X was done -I said I put up the list because I am TOO BUSY right now (Obviously to anyone in the universe except her)to think about X and enter into a discussion about it, and I will look at it later. Then she went out to her exercise class. I myself can't even do the exercises prescribed by the physio at the hospital, no time or peace. But then guess what? whitout being asked, DDs cleared all the dishes off the table, DD1 got a cloth and wiped everything in the house, and DD2 age 2 got her feather duster I had to buy her (or tantrums) and dusted. For 2o minutes, while I got the DW going!!!! who needs an AP? I'm so pleased with them:}

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Ameriscot2005 · 17/01/2005 19:43
IloveMarmite · 17/01/2005 19:41

Forgot to say - have 3 kids in our house!

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