Help! What should au pairs get in London? URGENT

If you pay the au pair at least the Home Office recommended minimum, together with their accommodation and food costs, they are making over minimum wage.

Because most au pairs are in the country temporarily, it's really not worth the trouble for anyone to register them officially. ISTR reading this on the Home Office website. It also says that au pairs (following the traditional description) from Accession states do not need to register with the Home Office - other workers do.

But Uwila, you don't have an au pair, even though you call her that. She is a Nanny, and nannies are subject to the same obligations as any other employee. Au pairs meet a narrow set of criteria (17-27, unmarried, no dependents, 25 hpw etc.) You can still get au pairs from EU countries, and the only difference is that they aren't limited to the hours (within the working time directive) and pay.

I definitely agree that you should keep "perks" out of the equation, unless you have access to cheap perks for some reason (like adding her onto your gym membership for a token amount). If you want to pay for language classes, give her a little bit towards them every week as part of her pocket money. And if you really can't hold back on generosity, save the perks as rewards for doing extra good work. When au pairs get together, they like to compare what each other is getting and seem to forget about non-monetary stuff - so give her all her pocket money in cash, and not in things.

Oh, and another thing, employers are not required to pay for travel beyond their own front door. Some do pay for this. And I might consider it if I had the spare cahs, AND if she was worthy. But, the au pair you describe is not in my view particularly worthy.

But, I think that your understanding applies to times gone by. No doubt, there will be a barage of mumsnetters on here soon to back you up. But, I still have my own mind to disagree. The Home Office does not require the hours you state. That "understanding" comes from a time when au pairs did not have rights as an employee. Today, they are entitled to such things as statutory sick pay, and 20 days paid holiday. That's just it. They are employees with the very same rights that I have at my job. But, some will argue that they should have the employment rights plus all of the old "understandings".

I agree that the extra hours warrant resonable pay. But, let us not overlook that this person's room and board is paid for. That counts for a lot. And, also, the value of her English lessons should be counted in her total package. She deserves fair pay, but not extra freebies, like travel card and English classes. ESPECIALLY WHEN SHE ISN'T EVEN DOING HER JOB!

I believe that we should treat our domestic employees as we would expect our employer to treat us. That's the rule I apply with mine.

Another thing to consider, do you pay her gross or net? You are not required to pay net, but it used to be common practice. So, a lot of people think you should.

Guess what I do? Gross. I do not see why nannies and au pairs should have special employment priviledges and perks that their employers don't get from their own jobs. My employees can generally expect to be treated as I am treated by my employer.

But the understanding for an "au pair" from EU or Commonwealth countries is that same as the Home Office definition (25 hours per week, blah blah blah). Yes, an EU citizen can work longer hours, but they would expect to get paid appropriately. Someone in sole charge of your children for up to 10 hours a day is not an au pair - it's a nanny (who should then have the appropriate training). An EU citizens can also be an au pair plus (35 hpw) or a Mother's Help (>40 hpw), but they would not be expected to have sole charge for any length of time.

majorstress, I just tried to CAT you, but you have messages blocked (I think it's the default). You need to go into your account and allow mumsnet to send you messages in your e-mail.

With all due respect, Ameriscot, I disagree with your job description of au pair and nanny. There exists (or at least used to exist) an au pair visa which restricts what that person can do in terms of there role as an au pair and how many hows they can work whilst in the country. But, times have changed. And, an EU national who is hired as an "au pair" is subject to the very same employment laws as any other employee in this country. Majorstress, you can hire anyone you like (within the law of course) and ask them to work however many hours you choose, and assign them whatever duties you choose (so long as they agree to them, presumably in the contract), and you can give them a job title of "au pair", "nanny" or "ambassador to Charlie Brown" if you like. There are of course employement restrictions on non-EU residents that restrict you further.

Also, if an employee lives in your house, you are not required by law to pay them minimum wage. Although, you will find plenty of mumsnetters who pay their "nannies" more money than I could even consider. If you want to know what you can and can't do as an employer, I suggest looking at www.nannytax.co.uk (I think that's the right address?). It is very unformative. Also, a lot of people tend to quote what the agencies say are going rates. Personally, I think these numbers are inflated. I don't think people like me who avoid the agency to save money are taken into account when they run their numbers.

A CAT is a way to send me a message through mumsnet. It stands for Contact Another Talker. Link at the top of the page.

Regarding the hours, if she works until 8:00, as she is contractually bound to do, she works a 29 hour week. I know people who work double that. Also, I don't think the schedule of breaks is too unreasonable. Yes, she has a two hour break where she can't organise much of her own activities. But, aren't you paying for an English class? She could use that 2 hours to study. Seems reasonable to me.

As far as the +cleaning goes, I have assumed in my comments here that she has the time/ability to do this cleaning in the hours you list. For example, nap times, or times when your DDs are watching TV or otherwise occupying themselves. Granted a two year old can't be left alone for two long. But, I think it's reasonable to expect the au pair to say fold the laundry in the same room whilst they watch Winnie the Pooh.

Umm, no. If she's looking after children, she's not free to do whatever she likes. 8 - 6 M-F is 50 hours per week - double the au pair standard contract.

If she's looking after the children, then nap times count in her hours. But it's OK to expect her to do housework while a child is napping.

The thing is, Majorstress, is that the au pair shouldn't really be doing housework at the same time as looking after the children, especially when you've specified a lot of time out of the house. I know we mums do it, but an au pair isn't a mum.

You should tot up how much time you expect her to spend with the children (not including nap-times), and deduct what's left from her total hours - that's the housekeeping time. Obviously picking up is part of playing, but I don't think it's fair to expect to have the kitchen scrubbed unless you want the kids goggle-eyed in front of the TV.

How old is your au pair? If she's young, she might not "get" what's involved in running a house.

A CAT (Contact Another Talker) is a private message. It's on the menu bar at the top of the page

So let's see if I can figure this out:

Approximately...

Monday: 8 - 9 and 3 - 8 + cleaning
Tuesday: 8 - 9 and 3 - 8 + cleaning
Wednesday: 8 - 9, 12 - 1 and 3 - 8 + cleaning
Thursday: 8 - 9, 12 - 1 and 3 - 8 + cleaning
Friday: 3 - 6

Those are long hours! And it's a bit dodgy not to include the afternoons between nursery drop-off and afternoon pick-up.

I think that your school drop off and pick up times make it very hard for an au pair. It makes the day very bitty.

I think most people with au pairs get them to do the morning and afternoon school runs, with the housework either straight after or straight before these times. This gives the au pair a large block of free time in the day. When you have the lunchtime drop off, it makes it so that she can barely do anything useful with her freetime. This is only going to make her resentful of you - or consider her day continuous and rightly ask for more money.

My au pair (I've just appointed and will be picking her up on Sunday) will be doing 8 - 10am (breakfast, school run and an hours' housework) and 3 - 6pm (school run, an hours' housework, an hours' baby sitting). When my youngest starts afternoon nursery in April, I will do the lunchtime drop-off and then all the girls can be picked up by the au pair (same school, finishing 3.15, 3.25, 3.30).

It does, now that you've clarified it, seem that your job is more suited to a nanny, or at minimum, an au pair plus.

Also, there have been a few threads on here regarding sample interview questions as well as the employment contract. I have both handy. If you want them, send me a CAT and I'll be happy to e-mail them to you.

I really do have sympathy for you. My DH works away all week long. So, when things went bad for me, I was left with the whole responsibility of getting rid of one, not going to work myself for three days, and then sort out a new one as fast as I could. It was horrible. But, having the new one has made my life exactly what I had hoped it would be with the first one.

Speaking of whom, I like to name and shame. Whatever you do, do not hire a 20 year old (probably 21 now) named Lidia "Lidka" Kowalczak from Poznan Poland.

I remember telling myhusband one evening that he was gong to have to have me committed if I didn't find a support group for parents of bad au pairs. I't funny now. But, it wasn't then.

Grrr... typo. Moving to nanny does NOT guarantee competance. Sorry about that.