Impact of nursery on under 3s

I haven't research to hand but will post when I get a moment.

There is a reason you found it hard emotionally. You should do because you've passed your most precious item (containing half your genes that you are design to protect and keep alive) to essentially a stranger and you have no idea how your child is in that environment. It's not natural, that's why it's hard.

How do you know your daughter is tired through play all day? Without meaning to cause distress to you. Could it be your daughter is tired from the stress of being away from you. She probably is switched on all day wondering where you are, are you coming back, will a predator get her? Humans are incredibly complex, our brains built through evolution and our society has developed in recent (100s/1000s) years way quicker than evolution can cater for. We are not designed to be away from the person who shares our genes and desire for our survival. A baby is not aware of the risk assessment at a nursery.

Cancer drugs are not black and white... different people react differently....many factors involved...they won't treat everyone the same but there will be results hopefully that are consistent for the majority of patients or affect on a scale.

Could we please have a link to this “proper research” please so we can analyse the data ourselves. I dont mean that in a facetious way I am genuinely intrigued

@trufflesandolives sending your child to nursery is hard. Mine is 1 but started a month ago and I was surprised by how hard I found it emotionally - it’s a whole new routine, she is tired because she’s literally playing all day and switched on a lot more than she would be at home with me. As another pp has said I don’t know how you can have any “hard evidence” as there are so many confounding factors. There are some things that are black and white like does drug A treat cancer, I don’t think if your child goes to nursery or not is that simple. I think part of it is trust your gut and hope for the best.

Apologies for coming so late to the posting party on this thread.

The proper research, not that backed by nurseries or mere opinion by so called child experts with no meaningful qualifications, is clear. Avoid childcare under 3...unless the parent(s) cannot provide adequate provision for their children in which case good quality childcare may be better given the alternative.

My partner is a child clinical psychologist and has educated me on this topic. We never used nursery before 3.

I add my own common sense...humans are well undeveloped when born compared to other species...when some mammals are born they walk within minutes, they can move and have some form of autonomy. A human typically takes at least a year to walk and when they do they toddle around it's without awareness of threats. This physical difference is mirrored with the mental development. Human babies are not well developed. They need nurture and protection, to feel safe. To be left to cry or not soothered by a primary care give will stress the hell out of them. People think babies learn from controlled crying...they can't learn at that age ...they give up...damage is caused. Same with the stress caused not being soothered by the primary care giver. This damage will last a life time. Why are we seeing such a rise in anxiety and mental health issues...the way we treat babies is a contributing factor.

You are right about the socialising thing. A load of rubbish. Before the age of three kids don't need to 'socialise' with each other kids. If a child is securely attached from a sound first three years with a primary care giver they will socialise well when they go to nursery or school.

The best primary carer initially for a baby is typically the mother. However I believe parents should work together to raise their children. From one its much easier for the dad to care for the child for longer and parents can mix up work and childcare. (things don't always go to plan but you should look at the optimal and work/adapt from there). Ideally help from family and friend is also good...this could include outsourcing chores to them like house work/cook you a meal etc...if they understand the importance of child attachment they will hopefully want to support you and your child in the best way possible.

The most precious thing in your life should be your child. Why outsource their care? Companies don't outsource the thing they do best. As a parent you are the best carer for your child, don't outsource it.

If any doubts on the research...why risk it?

Life is hard. Raising children, especially in a society promoting childcare and subsidising it is hard. Raising children is seen as a burden and less value than a job. There is nothing more important than a child and parents should be encouraged to raise them. The children will benefit and so will society. Parents should take pride in being a parent. Being there through the first three years is the most important thing a parent can give a child.

I recommend Steve Biddulph books Raising Boys or Raising Girls. I've read Raising boys and is invaluable to understand what boys need through to adulthood from their parents and society. I'm sure Raising girls is equally as good.

If you need to do nursery before 3 don't beat yourself up. Awareness of the issue will help you give them what they need when you are with them.

We chose a childminder to avoid nursery under 3.

This would have been the case had my mum looked after my daughter. She has never had much inclination to properly interact with her or take her out or anything. Much the same as she was as a parent tbh. It wouldn't have been a good choice for us at all if it had even been an option. The nursery my daughter went to was much more in line with our ethos and I loved collecting her from the nursery garden in the summer all dirty and tired and smelling like suncream having had the best day.

Yes, I’ve seen this at toddler groups. Grandparent care often seemed to involve an exhausted looking grandparent who was struggling to keep up with a toddler. There was one family I wasn’t sure was even safe as the grandparent was reliant on a walking stick and couldn’t walk fast or far and had a very active young child with them.

I have seen excellent grandparent care but that was someone who’d retired relatively young and been a primary school teacher and who, crucially, only did one day of childcare a week for gc so they were always doing fun activities like the park, duck feeding, library, baking because she had the energy and enthusiasm.

I think you might be massively overthinking it. Nursery settling is stressful for both parents and children, but 100,000’s of kids go to some kind of nursery setting and are absolutely fine. LO bb has probably been over tired or over stimulated after his first day. When mine has been in for the 2 days a week he goes, it’s literally tea bath and bed because he’s shattered from a busy day.

Similar here, my daughter is very confident being left with adults who she is very familiar with eg nursery, grandparents etc and has no issues separating as she knows we will always be coming back.

in terms of research, I’m not too sure, but I am a early years teacher, and from what I have witnessed, the issues seem come from parents solely relying on nursery 5 days a week/full time care, not being able to form as strong attachments , I’ve seen very anxious and sensitive children come from families who have used full time childcare since their little ones were small. This is merely an observation and passing no judgement! I believe the pendulum swings both ways and a balance to be struck is best for the child, quality time and comfort at home with their caregivers and time away from home, exploring, learning and socialising with peers independently.

On the grandparent thing - it's often touted as better than nursery, but in the real world, it often isn't. I thought a friend had the best possible situation with her retired teacher mum looking after her kids, but it turns out the kids were watching TV all day.

We didn't send ours until 2, and it was school hours only, but I really saw my kids flourish after they started going. They used to talk excitedly about their friends and what they'd been up to, and look forward to going in. I felt like they really grew in themselves and feel it was an overall net positive for them by 2 so I'd be skeptical of this lady's work. I suspect truthfully it probably varies a lot with different kids, some are ready earlier or later than others or are less upset at being apart.

My son's only been going for a couple of weeks and only for 3 hours a week. He loves it, and everyone I've spoken to about nursery say how much it's helped their babys development

Children can’t “socialise” under the age of about 3. What they need is a consistent adult. If they have to go to nursery because of parents’ work or other needs, that’s a different matter. But nursery can’t be painted as being in the child’s best interest. At best it’s neutral.

My own experience of using a nursery was very negative. My children didn’t settle and I found the insistence on charting how much eg baby yoga they’d done, while neglecting their basic needs (particularly for sleep, and cuddles) really disturbing.

The nursery was highly regarded and my friends raved about it. Another nursery I looked round had children crowding round me when I visited, desperate for attention.
Another one had children running round the playground with their coats undone on a feeezing cold day. Another one had a cigarette lighter left discarded on a step in the play area.

Maybe I was just unlucky with the nurseries in my area. But I found a childminder much much better, and then in due course a preschool.

I can’t comment on the studies, but both my DC started at nursery when I finished mat leave (I had to go back to FT work). They were about 6m old when they first started nursery, and finished going when they started school. There was also a holiday club setting at the same place, so they attended that after they started school. I chose a brilliant nursery, with wonderful staff and facilities. My DC are 11 and 18 now, and they had the same staff looking after them. The turnover of staff was very low. Both my DC flourished there and we have lovely memories of their time spent there. We sometimes bump into the nursery staff when we are in town and they always stop to chat and catch up.

OP, give your little one time to settle in. It’s a new thing and he’s probably tired after his first day.

Babies and toddlers just need time to get to know the staff and feel that they are safe people as they already do with their parents and close family. Many (but not all) will be unsettled initially until they know the adults caring for them do care for them and they feel safe.

Personally, I think babies/toddlers doing half days or core days two or three times a week for a few weeks help them settle rather than only doing one day or full ten hour days. That is because this gives them a chance to fully get to know staff and the environment but without making them over tired.

The biggest thing I have noticed in children who have attended nursery full time from babies is that they become very peer orientated and less responsive to adult direction. They also become institutionalised to a degree. Nurseries have fairly fixed routines through the day and rules that must be followed. If a child is there all day, every day it can impact their development in unexpected ways. We have had over confident children within the nursery environment who become very nervous when taken away from it (day trips etc).

However, nursery staff are well trained in speech and language and SEN etc and children do make good progress if they are given support at nursery, something inexperienced parents at home may not notice or do anything about until school age.

It was his first day. He’ll be tired. Think back to what it’s like starting a new job or moving to a new city. It’s exhausting!

Dont overthink it and stay positive.

I'm getting the impression that people have an inaccurate idea of American staff to child ratios in daycares.

In my state, the rules for licensed daycares are:
6 weeks to 14 months - 1:4
15 months to 23 months - 1:5
24 months to 36 months - 1:8
36 months to 48 months - 1:10
48 months to 60 months - 1:20
School age - 1:20

UK nurseries -
Under 2 - 1:3
2-3 - 1:5
3+ - 1:13
3+ if staffing does not include a qualified EY teacher - 1:8

I wouldn’t read too much into self-styled American ‘experts’. The context is too different for a start and early years provision is very different from here -
ratios/accepted standards etc. I’d focus on research by the likes of Kathy Sylva.

The perfect situation also has to include a parent who wants to stay home and is happy to stay home.

It isn't good for a child if the parent isn't happy or fulfilled at home.

The reality is that most people don’t really have a choice. I read that the perfect situation is to have a stay at home parent until 3 (with grandparent or nanny as close seconds) but attend stay and play activities with caregivers 2-3 time a week from 6 months then have 1-2 activities without caregiver from age 2. From 3 until school attending part time nursery, half days is very beneficial.

Not everyone can, nothing you can do if you can’t but if you are able to do this it’s good for your child

It is a big change it took mine 4 weeks to stop crying on drop off and 6 weeks go start smiling there. In month 3 now really enjoys it but does get overtired with the very long days.

It is great that yours slept and ate on first day! Took mine a month to start sleeping there.

I imagine he was just tired. I wouldn't read too much into it personally.

I'd just say he's had a busy first day and is a bit tired.

Starting something new is always an adjustment- do you not feel a bit frazzled after a first day in a new job?

Depends not only on the child, but also on how many hours a day they spend in childcare. Personally, I think some children can't cope with being in childcare at all, others will enjoy themselves but even then, they shouldn't be spending more than 6 hours (which includes a nap) in nursery. (this is just my personal opinion based on my personal experience with my own children, who were in nursery from around 15 months old and did stay longer than 6 hours, and from seeing the other children in nursery).

Childcare is beneficial only if children are socially isolated at home (which is often the case) or come from dysfunctional families. However, parents also need to work so I don't think anyone should feel guilty for sending their child to nursery!

My daughter has been in nursery since around her 2nd birthday and it's the best thing I ever did for her. Her language development has come on leaps and bounds, she's socialising, making friends, toilet training has gone smoothly as nursery have supported well with this.
I'm a firm believer in the "it takes a village" mantra and nursery are part of DD's village.