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Original poster

Am I right in thinking nannies are so expensive because so many people don't pay the tax/NI?

36 replies

1dilemma · 16/05/2008 23:08

OK hunt still going on a bit halfhearted because our ideal would be September.

Every single nanny I have contacted (even for Sept. start) has basically said that their NI/tax isn't paid, hence I'm guessing thier employers are happier to pay them what they would be paying gross.

I'm sure you're all paying tax etc and I intend to but I would value comments and some suggestions as to how to find one that does 'want' to pay tax.

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Original poster
1dilemma · 19/05/2008 23:14

Agree Gidleigh don't think the credit crunch has affected very much at all so far except prices/the banks but once people start to feel the pinch it will all go tits up.

I was reading today about the huge number of public sector jobs that have been created that don't actually do anything.

(By that of course people in these new jobs come to work, sit down at their desk switch on their computer etc but do we really think the 18 week wait counters are doing a necessary job? Are we really prepared to support them all with learning plans, employer sponsored educational leave, final salary pension schemes and generous holiday pay, fine if as a nation we are but then we are going to have to accept a 3/3/4% rise in NI to pay for it all etc etc.)

Anyway what I was thinking is that once some serious redundancies have fed through, if any do, people will have to sack their nanny then there will be increased competition and wages will drop.
we'll see

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Gidleigh · 19/05/2008 15:25

I have tried so many times to offer salaries in gross terms but have always gotten pushed back from agencies. And when I advertised on gumtree, most nannies appeared to be confused and requested price net figures. It would certainly be easier if everything was on gross but in my own experience as an employer it has always ended up being net. And nanny salaries in the London area (w1) certainly at £35k gross and quite standard. I don't get the impression that the credit crunch has had any effect on the nanny wage front.

imananny · 19/05/2008 13:18

true Jura - though my Mb was happy to pay me a nett wage - tbh think most of my friends are on a nett wage

it is the fault of agencies - they say nett so therefore most nannies talk nett

choosyfloosy · 19/05/2008 13:12

i afford it, just, by sharing a nanny, and by being quite old so we bought a house a while ago.

However, my nanny doesn't earn £35K - she earns just under £25K gross, of which we pay half. A pretty good wage for round here, and the total wage is certainly more than our household income, hence the share!

jura · 19/05/2008 12:31

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Original poster
1dilemma · 19/05/2008 01:01

quite nannynick, I was looking at KIWIOZ nannies the other day and I'm thinking all their rates are net and I found it REALLY annoying.
I think it really encourages the whole not paying tax/NI thing and for people to think of it as OK

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imananny · 18/05/2008 11:29

agree about the tax thing, if it changes that yes nannies do seem to lose some of their wageif on a gross wage, hence why I prefer to be paid in a nett figure, but as said before I will tell employers what the gross would be to give them a ball park figure when trying to sort out what employingme wouldcost them

nannynick · 18/05/2008 10:13

What benefit? Those lot all mad... due to the 10% banding thing, I end up getting less pay, not more. Thus I would have thought that those on a NET contract, would not have seen that drop in salary.

Employers all need to refuse to talk in NET, Agencies all need to refuse to talk in NET (I did ask the Association of Nanny Agencies about that once, never got a response), then nannies would have to get used to GROSS pay.

jura · 18/05/2008 02:01

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DaisyLilac · 18/05/2008 00:25

1Dilema - I'm impressed you are talking tax and NI !
Ive had an ad/responded to ads on Gumtree and I would say only 1 in 10 are willing.

Original poster
1dilemma · 17/05/2008 22:24

Yes
Bit cheaper out of London
Live in cheaper again but getting a place big enough for us is one thing getting somewhere wiht enough room for a nanny as well.....

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StarlightMcKenzie · 17/05/2008 22:20

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Original poster
1dilemma · 17/05/2008 22:17

KatieDD we've been paying for it with tax increases for some time now.
In my job we've also been getting sub inflation (any way of measuring it you choose) pay rises for some time now.
I've actually not been to the supermarket in a while (dh has been going to stop me spending too much ) but went tonight and I was shocked food is so much more expensive (and I'm only talking about 1 month). Petrol seems to go up every time I walk past a petrol station.
Paying off debts is a good plan, we have been recession proofing ourselves for a while now, we also have alternative job options lined up if needed.

Starlight you're right you'd need to add about 40% onto that, that's whet makes me think a lot of people aren't apying the tax/NI.
you also have to add heat and light in the winter, food and nappies!

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StarlightMcKenzie · 17/05/2008 21:48

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KatieDD · 17/05/2008 21:42

I'm not being funny but if the credit crunch hits wages then it'll be all wages not just nannies and we'll all be up the creek.
I'm already starting to pay off all debts with the intention of stopping work next year because with the rising costs of food, petrol etc it won't be worth my working, plus I rather suspect that all this borrowing will be paid for by tax increases next year.

Original poster
1dilemma · 17/05/2008 20:42

OK lets make this clear I'm only employing a nanny if I'm paying tax and NI, no way would I want a criminal record over something like that, never mind whether I would entrust my precious children to someone who didn't. (I'm not talking about a bit of babysitting or an extra hour once a month.)
Immigration status checks out when I've got that far either OZ, E Europe or have also had conversations with Turkish au-pairs (and I know they can earn x amount a week without paying tax)
What I was trying to say is yes nannies all talk net, (incidentally so do the agencies which for all sorts of reasons is really off isn't it?), yes we need to pay gross, when you do the maths a nanny is earning more than an engineer, junior Doctor, teacher, nurse and probably trainee accountant. That is a huge wack of moneyfine if you have a super qualified long hours etc but IMHE it is the same salary for a fairly moderate level of English, only wanting to work 8-6, poorly qualified applicant etc.

I'm thinking costs will come down once the credit crunch hits

I have tended to respond to ads so far (as I said ideally we're looking for Sept) to weed out all the really unsuitable candidates and have let the nanny lead on salary but always asked what they expect gross. I have only ever had one nanny give me a gross figure and one thankme when I said I was paying tax (however I think she thought it was in addition to her suggested hourly rate whereas I, living in the real world was intending to take it out of her salary )

Don't really want to use an agency too much money for what seems like very little.

I shall have to redo all the maths

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KatieDD · 17/05/2008 20:18

If they want to be paid cash in hand how will they feel about a CRB which I imagine is standard operating proceedure these days.
I wouldn't entertain cash in hand because if god forbid anything happened how would you prove you'd employed her ?

woodstock3 · 17/05/2008 20:10

most nannies want their tax/ni paid as they are in difficult position for getting mortgages/bank loans etc if they cant declare their salary properly. i would be wary of a nanny that actively doesnt want their tax paid and wonder what their immigration status etc was.
not sure what hours you are asking for but in london £9-£10 an hour is usual (we pay £9 liveout BEFORE tax and ni on top which is roughtly another 40pc) so for a 10 hour standard day this would be about right.
it IS eye wateringly expensive. but then they're not exactly getting rich on it - our four day a week nanny is taking home less than £20k a year from us, works long hours and has a lot of responsibility. she could probably get more working in a shop.

chipkid · 17/05/2008 19:25

I paid my nanny gross and in fact all negotiations were based on what her gross pay would be. Obviously she received the net ammount of that and I paid the tax and the NI. You need to calculate what you are prepared to pay gross and talk in those terms to any prospective nanny

quint · 17/05/2008 19:22

If you go through a reputable agency you shouldn't have any trouble finding a nanny that wants her tax paying.

I worked at a nanny agency for a few years and before left (over a year ago now) it wasn;t uncommon for employers to be paying £350 - £400 a week net for a live in nanny and £450 - £500 net a week for a daily in the London area.

I agree its insane that household staff (nannies, hosekeepers etc) are still talking about salary in terms on net rather than gross. Maybe if you put in your ads that you are payong £* a week gross and the net salary in brackets they will then realise that you are looking to pay tax and NI.

Good luck,

moogmum · 17/05/2008 19:10

when we interviewed for nannies two years ago, six out of seven wanted cash in hand - i.e. no tax or NI paid. I was really surprised. We wouldn't consider not paying properly and fortunately the nanny we wanted to employ was the only one who wanted tax and NI paid. But that experience suggests it is fairly common - I presumed it was so employers saved money while nannies earned a bit more than people could afford if they also paid tax.

nannynick · 17/05/2008 16:39

Is this something to do with immigration status, do you think?
If they are in the country having overstayed their visa, then they won't be wanting things declared.
Does your job ad say that you will be operating PAYE? If so, perhaps applicants are saying that they don't get tax/ni paid in there current job, thus you job appeals to them.

imananny · 17/05/2008 14:56

nannies are the only employees that seem to talk about nett wages

i normally go for an interview and say what I want nett,and then say this is xxxgross a month

am very suprised that nannies dont want their tax paid - unless they take home gross as cant afford the nett wage from it?

mumnanny1 · 17/05/2008 14:16

This is bad, but agreed for my employers to pay tax for me at a lower salary. Tbh I wish I hadn't. It becomes a pain in the arse when you have to declare income for a mortgage etc. I won't be doing it again!

TheBlonde · 17/05/2008 11:06

1dilemma - I think you are probably right
Lots of people seem to either do low official salary and the rest in cash or just cash