Should parents pay nanny's for the nanny to take them out?

They are cf. Even if you are self-employed as nanny you can't claim days out as an expense. Its only travel (your travel to and from place of work) clothing, insurance etc.

I agree , these people are ridiculous…
I can’t believe she expects you to pay !!!

You need to factor the difference between being self employed and an employee into your hourly rate. That is, you need to ensure you are accounting for not getting paid sick leave, leave etc. I’d suggest that factor would increase your hourly rate by at least 20%.

Of course parents pay for outings! And they should buy you a coffee and your bus fair snacks

how tight !!thus would make me reconsider working for them

If you're in London there are many free museums that children of that age would enjoy, the Science, National History, Crystal Palace is also worth a visit, musuem of Childhood is excellent.
I am sure other cities would also have free entrance museums but obviously she should pay all your travelling expenses, children will travel free but would probably want a treat/snack while out. Mine always manage to get something.

Yes - worked as a nanny for many years and always had a kitty purse that the mother kept topped up

I'm not convinced she's not a bad person. If she wants to use a nanny, she needs to have a basic level of understanding of how to employ one. It's very likely that she is deliberately taking advantage of you rather than being ignorant. Nannies aren't self employed unless it's a very short term, casual sort of relationship eg a couple of weeks of holiday care, for example or babysitting jobs. If this is a regular job, where you are expected to cover regular days for her, you need to be employed and have the advantages of being employed.

I paid mileage, entrance tickets, lunch etc. gave money to spend and reimbursed anything incidental. They are lacking knowledge (tax suggestion) or CF

They need to give you money in advance for outings including your own travel and entrance fees. We used to give ours a set amount a week for going out so she didn’t need to keep asking and if she went over for some reason she got it straight back. If they won’t give you the money don’t take the kids out out of your own pocket and maybe look for a family who aren’t trying to rip you off.

The absolute cheeky fuckery of the whole thing, why should you subsidise their kids days out, are they for real.
Some of these rich entitled arse holes just don't get it do they.
One of my grooms jobs for a family, expected me to drive their kids around in my car at my expense, I had an e class convertible merc at the time that took alot of saving up for I wasn't have their grubby rude kids in my car.
I just said it was only insured for social and domestic pleasure not business use, which was true anyway. My premium would have trebled to change it to business use.

When we had a nanny she would take the baby to a baby group that she wanted to go to as her friends all went there so she paid for that, however if it was somewhere I wanted her to go or somewhere she suggested that I thought would be good for her then I would pay.

Hi OP, I'm a nanny too and my employers pay for everything for the kids, nothing comes out of my pocket. I have a kitty and I just tell them when it's getting low, they never even ask what I spend it on, although I'd be happy to tell them. I also have a work oyster card. They're taking the piss.

Surely when you looked into taking a Nanny role for the first time, realised you didn't know how it worked in regards to tax/NI etc…..you did a quick google search and found out that the family must employ you.

Surely when you took the time to register yourself with HMRC as self-employed, you did a quick bit of research to make sure that what you were doing was legal?

60 seconds of googling would have told you everything you needed to know.

Sorry that is wrong, there is everything to stop the OP being s/e in the circumstances stated by the OP.

If you check the HMRC website there as some key main indicators and an online check you can do to see if you are self employed. As a rough summary:

In the UK, HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) generally classifies someone as self-employed if they:

• Take responsibility for the success or failure of their own business.
• Have multiple customers at the same time. (OP doesn't)
• Can choose where, how, and when they work. (OP can't)
• Can hire and pay others to help with their work. (Presume OP can't)
• Provide the main equipment needed to conduct their work. (Again unlikely OP does)
• Also, if she makes a mistake, does she pay to put it right or does her employer. I.e if you are at work and have got say an invoice wrong, do you have to put it right in your own time?

Depending on what you do as a job, you maybe able to be s/e but just because you were, doesn't mean it was right. It might only get picked up if they do a spot check.

But the onus is on the person that requests you to undertake the work to declare the appropriate status and not the OP, so its her employers that would get into trouble and not the OP.

When someone works for one business or employer on a self employed basis, its actually the employers legal responsibility to make sure it is appropriate and not yours as you will pay your tax and NI, its them dodging their employers contributions (NI wise etc) that is the issue.

I can tell you now that you will not fulfil the legal requirement to be s/e as a nanny and that is their issue and not yours. What they are asking you to do is not legal in my mind and you can't put that type of expense through to subsidise them.

Was it Uber drivers who took them to court over this?

Well yes I mean they’re hardly going to accept checkout workers saying they want £20 an hour and sending someone else in their place or deciding at short notice not to turn up. 🤣So as the rules stand with checkout work not being like that, self employment can’t be imposed on them.

I saw someone advertising a ‘job’ the other day. Said about rotas and £15 an hour. Then said the person would need to be SE! 🤦🏼‍♀️

It’s the same as a supermarket can’t tell a checkout worker to be self employed.

Well technically they could, they could say "this is a self employed role", but that would never work in reality, because the supermarket role needs much more control over the worker than could potentially be considered reasonable of a SE person.

There's also nothing to stop someone asking to be paid as self employed. I have done work in the past for a college, who initially wanted to put me on a pay roll for the duration of the project. As soon as I mentioned I was already self employed they happily revised the fees and said I could simply invoice them.

So the parents think they should get these outings for their dc for free?
They think part of the benefit of hiring a nanny is that they don’t have to pay for their dc?
are they first time nanny employer?

no where in the world is this the system. No where.

Parents pay for both the dc and for you. Next they’ll be telling you that you need to pay for the dc groceries too

Exactly. They’re deluded. OP might not even pay tax anyway!

She’s not paying employers NI. She could get into trouble with HMRC for this.
It’s the same as a supermarket can’t tell a checkout worker to be self employed. A nanny is no different

I think the message is clear now op that she should be paying for everything for both you and her children related to their care. This includes taking them out.

she’s a cf.

We pay for everything for our nanny. She doesn’t drive so we pay taxis. We pay for her travel to take dc to their hobbies. We pay for her food and buy extras in the shopping that we know she likes , just for her, like sweets she likes. We value her so we treat her like our family. I would never expect someone else to fund my children.

Exactly. All of this. The only thing I will add is that any financial disadvantages of being self employed will be down to how much OP is charging for her services. It never ceases to amaze me how many SE positions I see advertised which are well under minimum wage when holidays and other benefits are calculated.

I've only read part of the thread so apologies if everyone has shouted this repeatedly but I think you are failing to understand the problem.

This arrangement where you are self-employed and sort out your own taxes and NI puts you at a huge financial disadvantage compared to if you were employed by these people. You are (I think!) not doing anything wrong, but they are. Because they are supposed to employ you, with all the costs to them, and benefits to you, that that entails. They are weaselling out of paying what they are supposed to pay, and it's bad for you.

Back to the issue of

I could get paid back this via tax
What does that mean? Do you even know? Do they? I wouldn't normally offer tax advice in a public forum but you seem to be even more clueless about this than I am - I have been self-employed for a few years now and do my own tax return (mine is very simple) and I don't get money back for anything. The cost of expenses is deducted from your overall earnings, and then you pay tax on what is left, that is all. So if you pay £30 for an outing out of your own earnings, you just don't have to give the tax man a share of that £30. You've still forked out £30 though! So unless you factor that in to what you are charging your clients, you are financing the days out.

Who provided the contract/ terms and conditions for this role?

Are you invoicing weekly/monthly

Are you also working for other families when this one doesn’t need you