Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

Have you signed the partitions and joined any of the campaigns, followed the champagne nurseries for Lemonade funding pages? Nurseries and professional bodies have been pushing for proper funding and the change from fee to funded for as long as funding was first suggested but few parents care until they get a bill.

The government have said we can't charge anything other than for consumables. Even a Sustainability fee was rejected.

The funding is lower for a 3 year old so it does cost the nursery more.

£30 in consumables a day is sodding ridiculous, and the excuse given because they have to accept the funded hours even more so, I don't blame you for questioning it. It doesn't cost more for a 3 yr old, and I don't spend £30 a day on 'consumables'. The problem is you called them on the rort they are all on, and now they want to get rid of you.

And if you read the thread, you will find out why an honest explanation isn’t possible.

I think mums & dads would view it differently if the nurseries gave them an honest answer/explanation to the question of why it costs £29 when getting free hours, compared to £12 when they're paying for childcare.

The mental health aspect they've used in their reasoning is pathetic.

I have to disagree with making more if the state funded all childcare. As I said, my local authority pay a lot less than my usual hourly rate. I can’t see government paying more than they already do which, for 3/4 year olds, just isn’t enough. I never went into childcare to become rich but I shouldn’t be struggling to pay the bills and feed my children either, I shouldn’t be struggling to earn minimum wage. The government knowingly underfunded and carries on underfunding settings. They’re not going to get any better if they take it all ‘in house’.

@Loopydaloppy I make equivalent of minimum wage or slightly less if you count the time I spend planning. This is the case for the majority of childcare workers. To earn more I'd have to take on assistants, pay them minimum wage and make money off their work the way nursery owners do but on a smaller scale. If the state funded all childcare I wouldn't make less I might even make more as would the majority of workers in childcare.

I do thé job because i love it. It's so rewarding and I wouldn't be happy if I wasn't nurturing the next generation. You don't go into childcare if you want lots of money. The nursery owners rarely actually work with the kids and it's managing staff and all that stuff I would hate

Surely you must make a profit though otherwise you wouldn’t be a childminder. Without a profit you’re essentially working for free are you not? The profit I earn pays my mortgage, feeds and clothes my children and pays my bills. My profit is essentially my wage. For all I love my job, there is no way on earth I would carry on without making a profit.

My local authority pay a lot less than my hourly rate for 3/4 year olds, I’m one of the cheaper childminders in my area too. Some areas are lucky and their funding rates match or are even over the usual hourly rate.

I'm a childminder and wouldn't mind being state funded. It just means the state pays my invoice instead of parents. Won't make much difference to me, it might actually improve things as some parents pay late/don't pay the final invoice etc.

I already charge in line with the funded hours rates. I already deliver the government's EYFS curriculum. Qualifications in childcare. Have all my first aid and safeguarding etc that you would expect from state providers it's not like being private means you don't follow the same standards as LA provisions.

I would welcome such a thing. I think owners of private nurseries are focused on making a profit and that isn't the best thing for the children AT ALL. I e worked in a couple, admittedly a long time ago now, and the parents were shown around by a very knowledgeable manager and the staff in room with the qualifications and knowledge of EYFS were focused more on paperwork than the staff without the qualifications/experience- which meant the bulk of the actual interactions with the kids was by the young inexperienced unqualified staff.

State owned care homes pay their staff similar to what you get in childcare. What is a HCA paid? These jobs are just as skilled. We should all be paid more than we get. Arguing nursery is a business and has to make a profit just means the owners making money not the staff soo no the work.

I don't think some people understand expenses. I work for myself (lawyer). My profit on which I pay tax is what is left after expenses, thousands for compulsory insurance, wage bills for any staff when I have them, for many very expensive lease costs and business rates etc etc. It is not a con or evading tax to be taxed on the profit you actually make. I pay loads of tax but of course only on the profit. On y receipts - turnover I have to add 20% (VAT) which the state takes.

Yes, they’re expenses. We take the expenses off of our total as the money has literally been spent on these expenses. We can’t use the money for anything else as it has gone on the cost of running the business. It’s not profit as the money is used to keep everything running.

A Childminding business is much like any other business. You total the money coming into the business, deduct the money going out and then you are taxed on the remaining as that is your profit.

That's expenses 🤣

but that is just running a business. If I set up a school photos business and employ a photographer and buy her a camera and some memory cards and pay a printing firm to produce the photos, all of those costs come off of my revenues before we get to the profit from which I can pay myself a salary as manager of the business

I'm beginning to think you're on the wind up so I'll step back. Have a good evening.

@BurntBroccoli the PP still has to pay those expenses, it is just that the tax treatment is better than if she had to cover them out of post tax income

@FrannyScraps
So you pay less income tax.

Yes that's an expense that goes through our books, that's what we're saying.

Do you not claim a deduction in these?
Photos attached from HMRC website.

Raise the issue in the Commons or on a Committee, and they can also directly intervene in some situations for their constituents.

It may go nowhere but if the only feedback MPs get is the persistent lobbying from big business then it is only those interests that they address.

Yeah, I just bet you knew that already.🙄

A lot of small businesses don't and a lot of nurseries don't, judging by some of the terms and conditions they try to get away with. And most posters on Mumsnet don't know that you don't just have to roll over and accept them, judging by the type of comments I see regularly.

Might bring in more taxes. If I had free/more affordable nursery, I would have gone back to work far sooner and worked far more hours.

@Loopydaloppy

"And where are the taxes going to come from? Yes, everyone’s taxes will rise yet again but let’s consider the fact that schools are already failing because of lack of funding, the NHS is failing due to a lack of funding, emergency services are on their knees. If we all have to pay more tax where should the money go?"

That's because of 14 years of Tory underinvestment.

@ThisUsernameIsNowTaken
Yes I agree.
This is an interesting article on how Norway does it. Very much investing in society and a future for all.

hechingerreport.org/norway-law-decrees-let-childhood-be-childhood/

And this article states how investing in childcare boosts the economy:

www.weforum.org/stories/2023/07/highest-childcare-costs-by-country/

And where are the taxes going to come from? Yes, everyone’s taxes will rise yet again but let’s consider the fact that schools are already failing because of lack of funding, the NHS is failing due to a lack of funding, emergency services are on their knees. If we all have to pay more tax where should the money go?