Nursery are threatening to remove my child as I questioned fees

The problem is that '30 free hours' is bandied about and really it should be made very clear that its subsidised hours and that they'll still be a cost to users. It's the fact it makes it sound like the cost is to cover meals, nappies, activities which is annoying. Just tell it like it is: it's a subsidy.

That said, £30 a day is extremely cheap. For a nursery that's open from 8-6 it's £3 an hour for the thing that's most precious to you to be cared for.

As an 'oldie' my children were in day nursery back before any 'free hours.' Full fees all year round, from 3 months (short maternity leave back then) until they started school. So while I understand the OPs frustration at the messaging, the reality is , it's still a damn good deal.

The 3 year olds subsidise the babies because of ratios. Most 3 year olds aren’t even in nappies. Better to put them in a setting that’s 2 and over or a pre-prep that starts from 3 so you know the money you’re spending is actually going on your child.

But what you have done is massively unreasonable

You sound like a huge pain in the arse

Given a full time place is £1250ish then £600 seems quite cheap!

@Schoolrunisbizarre because it is an open secret that consumables charges are top up charges, and if the LA had found that was the situation, the nursery would have to cease the charge and close, or cease offering funded hours.

It is disingenuous to talk about “nothing to hide” when nurseries are forced to collude in the government fiction that hours are fully funded.

I think it’s because they’re not allowed to call it a top up fee. My daughter’s nursery charges £78 a day, the gov funding works out about £58 a day and therefore the consumable fee is conveniently £20 a day. They have to vaguely describe it as a “consumable fee” for activities / nappies & wipes etc which is open to interpretation when what we all know it is is a top up fee except that can’t say that.

When your child turns 3 and you get the funding, you would be forgiven to think the fees will go down significantly

They will only reduce by £5 a month
Sorry. Only another 1.5 years until school!

I work for a company with an attached nursery and it may have to close due to overheads so that gives you some idea...

If the nursery has nothing to hide, why are they quite so pissed off with the investigation into charges?
Everyone gets investigated/audited/is accountable in some shape or form aren't they? don't most businesses have this at some point? I'm sure they have OFSTED looking at them too, but they're not expelling OFSTED bosses from the nursery...

£600 odd quid a month potentially is peanuts?

What do they say on here.....are you on glue?

How do you know it was a few simple questions? If the LA got involved, it would have been a full funding audit.

I'd also be wary of professionals who can't handle being challenged. Aren't most of us challenged in our job roles and accountable to customers/clients?

That is why the nursery I know would never accept funded hours.

Agree... 30 pound a day.. for what? How much paint and paper does the average 3 year old go through a day? Are the lunches to such a high standard to reflect this payment. I doubt it

Well done on standing up and challenging them, if more people did it they wouldn't get away with it. There are nurseries not charging any top up fees and thriving. Unfortunately the majority jumped on the bandwagon when complaints were in the media. £30 a day for consumables is a joke.

@Nichebitch The fact that they are kicking you out for this is outrageous and that’s the bit I would be reporting for sure.

“reporting” - to whom and for what?

Unfortunately you are incorrect. It IS meant to be free.

The government states it is free. It is the “30 free hours” scheme, the “30 free hours” code. I log into my government account, which states “use this account to get free childcare if you’re working”. It’s referred to as 30 free hours, it’s intended to be 30 free hours.

Nurseries receive £5.88 per hour for three and four year olds to cover this scheme (so about £700 a month from the government for “free hours” children). Charging for dinners and nappies? Fine. But charging an additional £600 a month on top of that and dressing it up as “consumables” is not fine. And repeatedly stating “it’s not meant to be free” when all the verbiage refers to it as “30 free hours” scheme is dishonest.

Some nurseries can’t manage their business based on the current funding? Fine! But it is meant to be free hours for parents. The fact that nurseries are doing all these extra inflated charges doesn’t negate the fact that the intention of the scheme was for it to be free childcare for working parents.

The thing is. Nurseries absolutely are! There staff are paid peanuts and it's mostly run by apprentices. Have you guys seen nursery owners? It's apparently the only charge you have to pay without question according to mumsnet! No other business would get away with billing you for vague nonsensical stuff and it would be accepted they would just terminate the contract! Mumsnet is ridiculous sometimes!

I know right! Perfectly reasonable question

I ended up not going with a nursery near me as initially they wouldn’t tell me what the consumables / extra charges are. Then wouldn’t give a breakdown

£29 a day consumables does sound a lot, more than I've heard of! but then factoring in losses and what the government pays etc, I know the calculations are more complex.

That said, the nursery have acted unprofessionally IMO. They're allowed to be pissed off with an investigation, but to take it out on the child (by forcing them to move potentially) as a means of getting to the mother is petty.

OP, you have been chosen for the mumsnet piling up fury 😂
the vast majority of people here are missing the point. Whatever they have the right or not of charging more and you not knowing why, you are well within your rights contacting the council to understand what they are doing, and if they have nothing to hide, this should be a non issue. The fact that they are kicking you out for this is outrageous and that’s the bit I would be reporting for sure. Basically they’re causing you and your family distress because you asked a question through official channels.

They're a private business and at the end of the day they can decide to withdraw providing you with a service for whatever reason they like. Unless it's something like discriminating on the basis of a protected characteristic, like telling you to leave because they don't like the fact that you're a particular race or religion or gay, they can make their own commercial decisions.

I must say, I'd question the fitness to practise of a nursery manager whose mental health is so fragile that it's damaged by a simple query to the council about fees - let alone that of staff who are affected by their employers' fees being queried. How on earth would they deal with a real crisis?

The manager might want to think about whether this is really a road she wants to go down.

There are two things to learn from this story:

1. Arrange a face to face meeting with the nursery manager before escalating as a complaint with the council (because that’s what it was taken as). The staff would probably have explained the funding situation properly to you. They might also have been open to negotiation if you had approached them nicely - a discretionary reduction if the fee was going to cause real hardship, a discount for providing some of your own supplies. Or at least assurance that some of the paid activities would fall on your child’s days in future.
2. Wherever you hear politicians talking about ‘free nursery places’ correct them. It is misleading and as can be seen from this thread, some parents don’t know that they will need to budget for extra once their child is 3. The funding for ‘free’ places is too inadequate to make them actually free, and communication about this funding is not honest and transparent.

My local nursery is a charity treading the Same tightrope between affording to pay their staff and utilities (remember their gas/electricity will have gone up too) and keeping fees manageable for the majority of parents.

Nurseries certainly are not 'raking' it in!

I should imagine they have worded it as 'staff's mental health has suffered' as it may be a kinder way of wording the fact the OP is not wanted at the nursery anymore!

Someone who is going to query what they have just been told with the council, instigating an investigation that puts on extra pressure is not going to be seen in the best light. You either accept their t&c's or look elsewhere. You must have signed you had read them when you first enrolled your child OP?