Can’t afford the additional charges at nursery for my 3 year old

A nursery needs 6 children to pay the wages and cost of employing one staff member minimum wage...from the remaining 2 children they have to cover....office staff, utilities, rent, rates, consumables like paint, glue, cleaning equipment etc....the aim of a business.... because it is a business is to make a profit they cant make anything and are often running at a loss ....hence the government pushing schools for 2 year olds....they have lower overheads, empty classrooms and can have a higher ratio. The costs of dumping babies in large classrooms with less staff are hidden as its the child who suffers.

and yet if you tell the childcare provider you will supply your own and so shouldn’t have to pay the top up charge you’re not allowed to with the majority 🤔

nurseries are cartels

Most nurseries charge an amount per funded hour used, for example we used 22hrs a week funded stretched all year, and pay £20 charge a week for the extra stuff, so we don't pay any fees, and pay £80 a month, but before that our bill was around £600 so £80 a month is a huge reduction

The hourly funding rate is only intended to go towards the actual childcare (and is far below what that alone costs). It doesn’t cover nappies, wipes, creams, food etc., Unfortunately the government falsely ‘marketed’ the funding schemes as free childcare but it’s not as settings would close if they had to supply everything out of the appalling hourly rates.

@crumblingschools I know schools are broke.
But as far as I thought (until this thread) the Nursery Class in a primary was just another class. No one would expect an £80 fee for their child in Reception (which all or part depending on birthday is under statutory starting age).
It seems things have changed.
From the sound of what nurseries in schools are now (going by this thread) I probably wouldn't send my daughter to the nursery class if she was a 3 year old now. I would wait until Reception for her to start.

If will have been written in the policies u signed.
most nurseries r struggling to keep afloat hence y so many have young apprentices, if u want quality childcare use home from home such as a childminder, but its subsidised hours not free hours so if u choose somewhere that charges more than the Council pay them which often happens for 3 and 4 year olds u have to expect to have other charges.

@Needmorelego you do realise many schools are absolutely broke.

I sometimes look at finances for school nurseries, some of them are running at a loss, as very hard to cover ratios and have enough funding to cover staff salaries.

The £80 isn't really for nappies, wipes, snacks, craft materials, the app or anything else - that's a bit of a red herring.
The charges are just a top up to cover the difference between what the funding pays and what the nursery's running costs are.
It's just that the law allows charges for 'consumables' but not a top up fee.

@caringcarer yes but a school based nursery I personally would have assumed everything is included - just like the OP did.
As I have said though when my daughter was at nursery just over a decade ago it was "marketed" as 15 hours of education not childcare. I am now aware from this thread it seems to have changed.
I still don't think there should be a charge though no more than the non compulsory terms of Reception should have any charges (as statutory starting school age is term after a child is 5 but Reception starts the September after a child turns 4).
But if the government has essentially changed what the 15 hours is all about then I really don't know what's what anymore 🙂

The £80 was not just for 2 nappies though was it?

@caringcarer surely she just needs a couple of spares in his bag.
Not pay £80.

This. Surely only the parents of the DC using nappies should pay for them.

If OP DC is still in nappies of course she'd have to pay for them. She'd be paying for nappies if the DC was at home too.

@cabbageking and your point is?
(also FSM only applies once a child is in Reception)

You get x amount per child.

This covers rent, cleaning, toilet paper, soap etc, training and salaries. internet, insurance, admin, stationary, furniture, repairs, maintenance.caretaker, equipment. Additional training for fire marshalls, asbestos training, medical needs, Sendco etc, and supply cover.
Teachers £31.650 starting rate

Access to SALT, any additional needs, assessments, Ed P, maintaining your records and reporting to the LA. Ed P can be over £80 to £120 an hour

Bin collections, paper and medical supplies, electric; rates may apply depending on status. Safeguarding, H&S, Legal services, HR, wage slips, maternity and paternity insurance or paid if not insured, pensions, legionnaires, PAT, deep cleans, advertising a teaching post is about £1000 a time, etc.

That all comes out any payments received.

Funds credited for FSM is at lower rate than the cost. Schools are expected to subsidise costs from their budget. The costs also cover staffing and training for MDS if you employ them rather than having a private provider. There are costs for free fruit and milk too.
There are costs to ensure you correctly record who can access FSMs even if everyone in your class is entitled to FSM.

For the love of god!

If you send him in with everything he needs then surely they won’t charge you for anything extra? My sons preschool asks you to provide a portion of fruit, and lunch if in for an afternoon, along with nappies wipes change of clothing etc so no extra funds needed

Sorry OP i haven't read the thread so not sure if someone has mentioned already. If you're on UC you can claim a 80% of childcare costs back. They require you to provide invoices monthly but i would still query with the nursery why they are charging so much for things you don't need.

The funding is only permitted to be used for direct nursery time.

You know even if you can't be bothered to read the whole thread before commenting, you can just read the OP's posts?

@Saltandvin as I have said - it sounds like what I have always known as "nursery class" in a primary school sounds very different to what they are now (my experience is from just over a decade ago).
I admit my knowledge now seems to be completely wrong and out of date.
I am actually shocked how much seems to have changed in just a decade.
I think If my daughter was 3 now I probably wouldn't be sending her to nursery because I have no need for childcare. I would probably wait until she was 4 and starting Reception.
I mean in my day we didn't go until 5 anyway.

Is your child send? Why are they still in nappies ?
potty train them and that will immediately save money.
but yes, extras are quite common so if you can’t afford it I guess you can’t send him?

Yes but that is why there is no need for 'a clear difference' as you had described. Pre-school rooms in private nurseries are no more or less set up for nappy changes than a school nursery. The vast majority have a pre-school room that is just like a school nursery but with meal times. There is no nap space, nappy change space etc - those exist in the baby room and toddler room generally. And I can assure you, having done the odd day in a school nursery, nappy changes there are par for the course.

Op, if you're on UC you may be able to claim back up to 85% of your childcare fees. Have a look on the childcarechoices website. I'm a childminder and the 3/4 year old funding is only £5 per hour in my area and I charge £7 per hr. So parents pay me £20 per day extra (on a 3 full day per week basis). However you can't call it a top up so you have to invoice it as an extra charge for consumables, nappies, wipes, day trips, playgroup fees, pick up charges, etc. Luckily all my parents are really understanding and happy to pay as they know the situation, but it annoys me that the government call it free hours when it's actually subsided childcare.

Many of the villages around us don’t have separate ‘childcare’ nurseries, so rely on mixture of school nurseries and childminders