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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

CM Club: This is all I need

60 replies

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 11:43

Apparently OFSTED have decided that if more than 3 of us work together we are a nursery

Previously we were told that 3 childminders/assistants working together at a time

I am completely devastated

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

vInTaGeVioLeT · 21/04/2008 22:01

god sorry to hear about your shitty day - feel very for you.

MaureenMLove · 21/04/2008 21:56

I knew I shouldn't have gone out to work today! Oh Katy, what a bummer! Just like Ofsted though, eh? Typically also, that NCMA have no idea of what's going on.

I have nothing else to add really, other than look after yourself, its the last thing you need on top of everything else you've had thrown at you in the last couple of months.

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 21:50

Letter to NCMA already in progress

Plus phonecalls in to anyone I know in childcare to protest

What do I do about people booking care for September. I have several families who have already booked and some coming to see me.

It's all to do with at a time or altogether isn't it?

OP posts:

crace · 21/04/2008 19:13

Great ideas Nick!

nannynick · 21/04/2008 18:51

Surely NCMA should be more helpful. They could at least arrange a meeting with Ofsted to discuss the issue at a National Level - after all Ofsted currently have you (and no doubt other childminders) register as Childminders, not as nurseries. Looks like it needs clarification - write a letter to the editor of Who Minds (or whatever NCMA call their newsletter these days) and see if that will spur NCMA on to having a meeting with Ofsted.
You could also write to the current chair/head of NCMA.

nannynick · 21/04/2008 18:47

In the Act, 96(4) and 96(5) are as follows:

(4) Subject to subsection (5), ?early years childminding? means early years provision on domestic premises for reward (and ?early years childminder? is to be read accordingly).

(5) Early years provision on domestic premises for reward is not early years childminding if at any time the number of persons providing the early years provision on the premises or assisting with the provision exceeds three.

I would say it meant that it was a maximum of 3 people on the premises. The 'or assisting' part I think may mean that if someone is out doing a school run, then they are still part of the magic number 3.
Any lawyers in the house? What does (5) above mean in simple English?

nannynick · 21/04/2008 18:43

Are Ofsted not referring you to actual legal documents?

For example, in the Explanatory Notes (Version: Sept 2006) to the Childcare Act 2006, I found the following:

81. Section 33 prohibits a person from providing early years childminding unless he is
registered in the early years register. Early years childminding is early years provision
provided on domestic premises for reward where there are no more than three people
providing the care or assisting with its provision (see section 96(4) and (5)).

crace · 21/04/2008 18:08

How helpful!

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 17:54

That they know nothing about it & that I should take it up with OFSTED

OP posts:

crace · 21/04/2008 15:53

What did NCMA say?

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 14:20

Well the network no nothing.....OFSTED are talking about "Early Years Provision within a domestic premises" which isn't childminding

So I am on hold to NCMA

OP posts:

crace · 21/04/2008 13:54

Then surely this is allowed! If you can get the extra one approved for the SN. I think any combo of three would be fine. You fight for this!

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 13:50

Um 5 childmninders (each working between 24-30 hours) plus 3 assistants (each working less than 10 hours)

But we job share as we are all a bit poorly or have other commitments

There are only 3 of us at a time normally - the only exception to this is when we have a child with SN who needs one-to-one then we are 4

We already knew the 121 for SN children was going to have to stop - which we were getting ready to fight anyway

OP posts:

Mumsnut · 21/04/2008 13:47

Arn't you job-sharing effectively?

Mumsnut · 21/04/2008 13:47

Hang on, surely that is meant to cover full time assistants? If none of you work 'full' hrs, surely 2 of your assistants should count as 1 or some such??

crace · 21/04/2008 13:44

It's you and DH right, so just one other assistant? I wonder if it could be you, and 2 others or DH and two others?

AtheneNoctua · 21/04/2008 13:41

So, what is thee combination you have? 1 childminder plus three assistants?

crace · 21/04/2008 13:37

Yes Katy, exactly. And I suppose they can't answer that?

wohmum · 21/04/2008 13:37

so it counts as you plus 3 others?

could you scale back a little ?

I'm a parent and followed your trials with interested and would be gutted for you to have toclose now after all this time.

chinup KatyMac!

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 13:33

This is the bit

Childcare on domestic premises
The definition of domestic premises remains as above. But if you provide childcare or work with three or more people on domestic premises after 1 September 2008 then the Childcare Act says that you are either an early or later years childcare provider or both: you are not a childminder.
Some examples of this are:

a childminder who employs three or more assistants to work with them.
three or fewer childminders who work on the same premises and employ assistants to help them which makes the number of persons who work together four

If you fall into this category you must meet the requirements for childcare providers rather than childminders. You should check the welfare requirements in the Statutory Framework for the Early Years Foundation Stage and the requirements for the Childcare Register to make sure you follow the ones for early or later years providers and not for childminders, as there are some differences. Your local authority can help you do this.

The question is- is it 3 at a time or 3 all together?

OP posts:

crace · 21/04/2008 13:30

Well you would certainly have a case of letting you continue or you will need to be on benefits!

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 13:26

I don't think it would work reducing it - the reason we work like we do is because of our health problems - none of us can work more than about 25/30 hrs a week - so that's it basically

Could I sue them under the disability discrimination act I wonder

OP posts:

crace · 21/04/2008 13:19

Blooming heck Katy what is with them?! So, what you have until September to reduce your childminding business or close completely?

Gee - how great of them.

AtheneNoctua · 21/04/2008 12:53

What a shambles. Maybe you should report them to a reuptable news source (like the BBC reporter who recently uncovered OFSTEED, Mark Warner, etc.)

Original poster

KatyMac · 21/04/2008 12:51

This is my childminders chat site

There are so many really good minder on here

Don't be silly - OFSTED just do what they like - why should the fact that we have been like this for 4 years and been given Outstanding mean they can't close us down

OP posts:

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