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Original poster

When you advertise for a non-smoking nanny, would you accept one who smoked but not smoked when working?

67 replies

nannynick · 12/04/2008 18:00

I've been wondering about this for a while... smoking is I feel frowned upon these days, particularly when it involves people who work with children. Many nanny job adverts request a non-smoker. But I expect there must be some nannies around who do smoke... though they don't smoke when working.
If a nanny applied for a live-out job which specified a non-smoker, how would you deal with it if the nanny then said they did smoke at their home.
I am wondering what parents feel is meant by non-smoker.

How should this be phrased in the Gross Misconduct section? If the employee is found smoking while on duty, that I feel could be grounds for Gross Misconduct. If they were found to smoke while not on duty, could they still be sacked under Gross Misconduct?

Should point out that I am a non-smoker, have never smoked and I expect never will smoke. So I am rather anti-smoking.

OP posts:
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AtheneNoctua · 15/04/2008 09:50

I am!

jura · 15/04/2008 09:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

southeastastra · 15/04/2008 09:44

the op stated live out

MrsMattie · 15/04/2008 09:43

I think it's perfectly reasonable that you are able to ask for a complete NON SMOKER.

AtheneNoctua · 15/04/2008 09:42

Why not? (especially if they live in my house)

southeastastra · 15/04/2008 09:40

surely you can't dictate that someone doesn't smoke when they're outside working hours! seems wrong

MrsMattie · 15/04/2008 09:25

Depends how hot you are on absolutely no smoking around your children. Any smoker is going to have days, even if they are rare, when they 'nip out the back garden for a quickie' while the kids are napping / entertaining themselves and you are at work. If you are horrified at the idea, don't employ a smoker. Smoking is addictive and no smoker can absolutely promise not to smoke all day.

AtheneNoctua · 15/04/2008 09:23

I don't mind if our nanny smokes when she she goes out with her mates on Friday night. But I object to her/him ever smoking in front of the kids -- on or off duty. And since she lives in our house, it would be a problem.

Also, I actively seek out nannies who are interestested in a healthful and active lifestyle. And someone who smokes isn't particularly responsible with their health in my opinion.

And, if I sought out a non-smoker and then discovered she smoked after I hired her, it would mean she had lied in the interview and I'd have a problem with that too.

Original poster
nannynick · 13/04/2008 17:37

So do you think it is reasonable to include in the Gross Misconduct section of a contract, a statement like:
Smoking while on duty, on the property or grounds.

What about something even more specific such as:

Gross Misconduct

If an employee is suspected of gross misconduct they will be suspended immediately pending investigation. If gross misconduct is confirmed, the employee will be dismissed without notice. This means that the employee will not receive the usual oral and written warnings, but will proceed immediately to
suspension pending an investigation.
Examples of Gross Misconduct include:
~ Theft
~ Damage to property
~ Fraud
~ Incapacity for work due to being under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs
~ Physical or sexual assault or harassment (either whilst at work or outside working hours)
~ Verbal abuse (whether to the employer or any third party)
~ Threatening behaviour (whether to the employer or any third party)
~ Gross insubordination (which will include any conduct that tends to undermine the employer?s independence or self-determination)
~ Breach of confidentiality
~ Deliberately or knowingly endangering the children's safety
~ Persistent unreasonable lateness.
~ Smoking (either whilst at work or outside working hours)
These are only examples. Gross Misconduct is not limited to the behaviour listed above.

Note: The above is mostly from Direct Payments Contract: Personal Assistant which is what a person with a disability may use when employing someone to help them. Thus it is similar (as the workplace is a person's home) to a nanny contract.
OP posts:
MrsWeasley · 13/04/2008 12:17

no I wouldnt accept a nanny who smoked because it stays on clothes, skin, hair etc and it could trigger DD's asthma. (DH used to smoke but not in the house but it still had an effect on her health, see hasnt been so bad since he gave up )

phraedd · 13/04/2008 12:16

My CV doesn't say either way but I am a non smoker.

If someone puts that on their CV, I feel that it should mean that they never smoke.

It is dishonest to state "non smoker" if you do smoke - however occasionally.

looneytune · 13/04/2008 12:13

Agree with imananny but not for the smoking very occasionally. I only smoked on these nights out and was never interested at all at other times.

Right, getting evils now so really MUST go

looneytune · 13/04/2008 12:12

Nick, I agree thinking about it. I just haven't applied for a job since I was 17 so it's never come up. This is what I'd do:

  1. Not disclose full stop on CV (although if I applied for job in childcare I may change my view on this)
  2. Would put occasional smoker if the option was on their application form
  3. If an advert said non-smoker, I'd bring it up at interview stage myself as would feel relevant to do that but would still apply as non-smoker as pretty much would be (I'm saying all this based on when I used to occasionally smoke)

Right, must go, dh dragging me to b&q.

imananny · 13/04/2008 12:10

yep agree with you nick - if you say you are a non smoker on cv then you dont smoke

prob better not to put anything on cv - and wait to be asked if you do smoke, then you can DESCRIBE the way you smoke iykwim

though still cant see how if you do smoke,that you survive for 10/12hrs without having one and not get grumpy/itratible with children etc

Original poster
nannynick · 13/04/2008 11:36

I can't see why an employer would raise the subject of smoking during an interview, if an applicant had put on an application form, or on their CV that they were a non-smoker.

If someone was to put "occasional smoker" or "social smoker" then yes, an employer would ask about that at interview.

By putting "non-smoker" I feel an applicant is stating that they do not smoke. Am I the only one with that view?

OP posts:
looneytune · 13/04/2008 10:52

Nick - never had this come up in my life so difficult one but if I went for a job and was asked then yes, I'd put non-smoker as apart from the few times a year I used to do this, I just wouldn't 'think' of putting 'smoker' iyswim. I agree with others about if they smoke in general but not around the children, I'd be worried about it still being on them plus they may not work as well if they are needing one. I do think it needs discussing at interview stage so that the person doing the interview knows exactly what's what.

CristinaTheAstonishing · 13/04/2008 10:03

I think my main concern would be that the nanny would get irritable and short-tempered as the day went on w/o a ciggie and become less responsive etc to the children (who wouldn't be at their best either towards the end of the day).

scanner · 13/04/2008 09:55

When I had au pairs the agency I used warned me that a lot of girls would say that they didn't smoke, but actually did. I had babies at the time and wouldn't let any smoker near them regardless of were they smoked or if they'd washed their hands, brushed their teeth etc. However, now they are much older I regularly use a babysitter who smokes (in the garden). So I think it's partly down to the ages of the dc's. Obviously the smoking should never be in front of the dc's or in the house.

Original poster
nannynick · 13/04/2008 09:35

Would you put on a CV that you were a non-smoker?
If you would, then would you inform an employer that you were an occasional smoker?

OP posts:
looneytune · 13/04/2008 09:20

Haven't read whole thread but just wanted to say, although I haven't been a smoker for years (and I'm strange because I'm anti it until I'm drunk! ), I used to smoke on the rare occasion I went on a big girls night out clubbing or something. It was just part of the night out. I'd never smell of it when working or anything like that - so where would someone like this stand? (as I know many others who are just social smokers like that). Obviously no smoking now due to being pregnant and tbh, you can't smoke inside now anyway (good thing) so not sure I'd even go back to it in the future. Just seems a bit unfair that IF one did do this, they could get into trouble over it

Original poster
nannynick · 13/04/2008 09:13

So if a nanny put on their cv that they were a non-smoker, and subsequently during their employment it was discovered that they did smoke (even when off-duty), what is the outcome?

Ask Employment Law: Gross Misconduct has within typical Gross Misconduct, "Fraud or deception within the course of employment". Could putting non-smoker on a CV be considered to be fraud, or deception?

OP posts:
nannyL · 12/04/2008 22:34

one of my closest nanny friends is a smoker

i ahve known her for ages but had NO IDEA at all that she smoked for over a year

she NEVER smokes at work full stop or even in hr car as the kids go in it.

I always thought i could smell smokers a mile off but i could never 'smell' her... she is a FAB nanny btw

btw i dont smoke and HATE smoke and smoking is completley banned even in the grounds (aka garden) of MY house

AbbeyA · 12/04/2008 21:13

The problem is that you can tell a smoker as soon as you get near them-they reek of it.

popgoestheweasel · 12/04/2008 20:36

Similar experience - CV said non-smoker. didn't check during interview.

I'm sure she would say that

  1. i never actually asked them directly and if I had, she would have told me, so she didn't technically lie (except on CV - but maybe they only took up smoking after they wrote the CV, because the job was so stressful so it's actually my fault)
  2. what she does in free time is none of my business
  3. it amkes no diff to kids' well being

and actually I agree with all of that (I used to send kids to nursery and regularly saw nursery staff out for a group fag break), though i do also know that some parents may hold the "harmful chemicals in lungs and breath all the time" theory too.

the issue for me was also trust.

madamez · 12/04/2008 20:30

Well yes, of course, it's fair to advertise for a non-smoker for someone who is going to live in (it's the one area of employment law where it is pretty much Ok to discriminate: after all if you are sharing your house with someone it's not unreasonable that you feel they fit in with you).

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