London mums working long hours - how do you manage childcare?

It used to be that by the time the mother returned to work after 9-12months’ mat leave, the father (and his employer) had started to enjoy the perks of him having a SAHM type set up, which set a negative precedent for the ensuing working parents dynamic, IMO.

This is a really important point. It also completely changes the dynamic in your relationship so you become the default carer / thinker/ planner for all things child. Your partner will default to you on everything - what does X eat? How much? What toys? When does X sleep? etc etc. It's exhausting and you will get more and more resentful.

It's also bloody lonely. Sitting at home with a baby while your partner does long hours and doesn't have the energy to speak when they get in. I couldn't wait to go back to work.

I had to do a lot of long haul travel when I returned to work so was gone a week at a time, pretty much every month. Even with a nanny, DH had to completely step up mentally and it made him massively more competent and confident as a parent.

You'll get lots of folk on Mumsnet who'll give you the whole "why did you bother to have kids" etc but I see nothing wrong with handing my child over to someone daily whose skills and capabilities are far more suited to entertaining and developing a child than mine. I try to outsource as much as possible so on the weekends I spend time with my children and they get the best of me/us.

One thing to say about the idea of working split days where you logon again after the baby is in bed, is that you will very probably have many (or all, for the unlucky ones) nights where the baby wakes you up 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 times, especially when they are ill. So you have to go to bed at 9pm in order to be able to get enough sleep to work (and safely get to work).
And this can go on until the child is three or worse.

Even if you are going to bed at 11pm because you have a good sleeper, I think many people feel they go mad if they don't have any time to wind down at all before bed.

Not at all meant to be snarky. I thought what you were saying was very sensible but, mindful of how anxious one can be in early pregnancy, I was trying to be reassuring. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

Not quite sure why the snarky comment from @SuiGeneris - about one in 7 women get PND - far better to protect yourself with a few insurance premia then end up screwed because you can no longer work.... If you can't live on one salary make sure you have income protection pretty basic belt and braces approach to me.

Definitely a nanny or share. If you can definitely wfh on set days then you might find a nursery for those days works well but I think two different types of childcare can end up being a hassle.

I’m assuming you don’t have any family or reliable friends that could help out if necessary for a one off if trains are cancelled or unexpected sickness?

If for any reason you do want to go down the nursery route, you can look for one close to where you or your DH work (although I wouldn’t fancy a commute with a baby or toddler) as that will give you a bit more time for drop off and pick up. (But trust me, opt for a nanny!).

Not lawyers but both in financial services in London so similar environments/expectations. Nanny the whole way (but I see you’ve already decided that anyway). We did do nannyshares when our youngest got to around aged 2.5. That comes with its own challenges (eg agreeing mutual vacation dates for the year across 3 parties, complicated tax code splits) and if it were affordable I would have avoided. It was good for company for the little ones though. I strongly recommend using a PAYE company and ensuring you have legal insurance. You become an employer with all obligations that that entails but you don’t have a HR team. It’s quite the undertaking. Try not to do what we did (not by choice) and have kids so far apart in age that we ended up paying nanny salaries for ~14 years. We’d be minted if we hadn’t funnelled so much of our earnings into childcare. In later years we had more flexibility and only needed a nanny 3 days a week but that was still 36 hours a week so not cheap. Also, look carefully at tax implications if your earnings mean you don’t benefit from tax free childcare and child benefit. In retrospect I wish we had maxed out our pensions and potentially retained some eligibility for tax free childcare. Sharing maternity/paternity leave is a really way to set expectations that both of you are in it together - I see so many young male colleagues take time off now, it’s wonderful and reduces the stigma on working mothers. It used to be that by the time the mother returned to work after 9-12months’ mat leave, the father (and his employer) had started to enjoy the perks of him having a SAHM type set up, which set a negative precedent for the ensuing working parents dynamic, IMO.

We managed with a full time nanny. Started as nanny share but went to full time when we had a second. Excruciatingly expensive and even more so now I suspect.

Nannies do want to go home at a sensible time though. They have lives and while you might be able to swing a late night once a week [block this in as part of the interview process] it's a long day with a small child from 8-6/7 and if you take the p*ss they will go elsewhere.

IF you are lawyers then you may be able to offer a later start time say 9am which makes a 9-7 a slightly more reasonable day and contains your cost.
THEN you two need to split the week/fortnight so you split the early starts [most lawyers seem to start at 10am and finish late in my experience] and 6pm finishes. OR if one of you practices in a specific area of law that allows for more civilised hours then you sign up for an 8am-6pm day while the other half does 10- whenever.

You then have the option to also have an au pair but and I mean this nicely, with both you could end up never seeing your child until weekends and that assumes no weekend work. I presume you both decided to have a child and its wanted so choices need to be made.

It is relentless for the first 5-10 years. Covering working hours is one thing, you need to be in partnership for sickness, school events, medical/dental trips and all the rest.

If you are lucky you will have a partner who is prepared for an equal opportunities parenting arrangement. It's a cop out in this day and age to cite working culture for men in his place of work as a reason for him not to do his fair share. You both studied and worked hard. The culture has to start changing some time, why can't he role model productive partner track and successful parenting. You simply need to build the flexibility into your schedules so that on two nights a week; or a big deal week that the other picks up the slack. BUT it's reciprocated. If it's always you, your career will stall.

In my experience, you can't have it all but with the right partner you can come very close to a bloody good balance for both of you.

This is as much an issue for men as it is for women. For those who step up as parents that is. The more that are robust enough to do so, the better they make things for the rest.

Not nostalgic but "most likely"

Lots of excellent and practical advice here, esp from @londonmummy1966 on making sure you are prepared for what will nostalgic likely not happen.

On what will happen, I would really recommend making sure that when you find a nanny you work out an arrangement that will work for both you and them long term. You will only be able to work well if you can completely trust that your child is happy and well-cared for and for that you need a nanny with the same outlook on child-rearing as you, and the same views on what is suitable food and a tidy house. After that, work out what they really value and give it to them. Our first nanny stayed with us for 4 years, leaving to have her own child, and her successor stayed for another 4. So much easier than when we had those who stayed a year and went.

Absolutely essential also that you make clear their holidays are to be taken when you get holiday- it may be easiest to sell this by showing them this means they get more paid holidays than the statutory minimum. Also establish early how much babysitting you might want and how much the nanny is keen or prepared to do. Some want as many hours as possible and some prefer not to vary their schedule- so don't assume, ask. Also would recommend that you agree from the beginning a certain amount of cooking to be done for the family- it will mean you can concentrate on time with your child when you get home and, if the nanny stays with you for the long term, it means there is an obvious time filler once your child start going to nursery or school.

If you can find one, a childminder would be a cheaper option. Some do extended hours and overnight care.
They are inspected and follow the same curriculum as nurseries.

I'm luckily not in this situation myself but have friends in London who work in law. They use grandparents quite a bit as well as nursery. They also have a "mother's help" who collects the children from nursery and does dinner and bedtime a few times a week. Maybe some childminders would do this too. That person is only employed for 3 hours/day so they pay that plus nursery.

I imagine you and your husband may feel very differently once baby arrives but if you really can't predict your hours that could be an option for you. At least if you were WFH you'd still see baby during dinner and bedtime while someone else cared for them.

Hi OP, a lot of advice in here! I just wanted to add my two cents worth as banker parents:

1. you can’t have it all. We tried, we really tried. We had very good help, but kids need their parents.
2. we managed for circa 7 years with two dc with a live-in nanny/housekeeper and an au pair. Then I gave up.
3. initially I moved to working Fridays at home as I wanted too see DC at nursery school, to know their friends etc. I was told at work that I wouldn’t progress, but in the last 5 years I think that attitude has changed.
4. Budget circa 50k to you for a live in nanny, agree in advance that 2 weeks of their holiday will be taken when you are on holiday. Then try and make that person part of your family (they are!) and treat them well. You want continuity of care and warmth and love between you all. Mine still see their nanny and talk on the phone a lot.
5. pick a nanny/housekeeper (if you need to change, change after a few weeks not years, know when something isn’t right and act quickly) who can grow with you. Needs to speak good English, caring, good work ethic. My rules were that the nanny was not allowed to be on their phone more than 10 mins in an hour unless child asleep etc.
6. as dc get older (high single digits and above) it gets harder not easier imo. You want to be involved and they want you.
7. remember housework goes up tenfold with a child. Someone who will try and tidy and cook IF they get spare time is invaluable.

I was a partner in a city firm and DH worked abroad much of the week so a live in nanny was my only option. You need to go to one of the big agencies - Imperial Nannies are good - and start looking when DC is about 4 months. Most nannies at that level who have stuck around a decent time with their family know 6 months to a year in advance when they will be moving on - usually when the youngest child starts school and they can down grade from an all singing all dancing mary poppins to an after school nanny or nanny/HK. So they'll sign up with their favourite agency on the basis that they aren't ready for an immediate move but to let them know if a good long term position with a new born is on the horizon. Look for a nanny that has worked with career couple families and stuck with each for a number of years as they will be the ones who are flexible and know the deal with parents working long hours.

I second the advice given that you try and do more late mornings and DH the early evening take over from the nanny and do not get into the habit of DH trying to get you to pick up more as "I just need to work late tonight darling...."

Once you are ready to let work know you are pregnant look at the successful women with children and see if one of the looks approachable. Ask them if they might be prepared to give you 30 minutes to talk about how they managed it - a decent one might well be happy to mentor a young mum even if not one of their direct reports.

Also have a look around at any professional talks/networking events and see if anyone else looks due at a similar time to you and see if you can pull in a bit of a support network. I was part of a women's discussion group in my field and 8 of us had babies in a year so we made sure all our senior partners knew we were talking to each other and comparing notes. Luckily mine realised that it was actually a good networking opportunity and encouraged it - we met up with each other during at leave (still do so now 20 years later).

FInally and most importantly make sure you have decent private medical insurance and income protection that would cover you if you end up with serious PND. Sadly I did after no2 and that was the end of my career but at least I had the best of care and an index linked monthly insurance payout based on my final year's drawings.

Yes - I went into more flexible work too. Most women I know have done this. Only one man.

I had a nanny in that position. Was lucky enough to find a mum with grown up kids who did care work who wanted to switch to being a nanny so was a bit more affordable than some of the experienced nannies. It’s tough but when they’re older you can au pair with school and after school clubs which is cheaper.

I respectfully disagree. Most of the nonsense falls on women. Things like these corporate offices having only one pumping room for hundreds of employees, continuously scheduling things during pick up/drop off times, sometimes denying bonuses or compensation when on maternity leave - this disproportionately impacts women and we need to name this as a gendered issue.

I think one thing to emphasize is that the working world is at best agnostic toward mothers and at worst overtly hostile.

I honestly don’t think it’s gendered as such; it’s just that these highly paid, highly involved jobs are hostile towards anyone who can’t give 100%. One of my DD’s friends mother is a partner in a city law firm. She is, by all accounts, very highly respected. And her DH is a stay at home dad. All fine and dandy. The problem is that two of you can only give 100% to both jobs by almost completely outsourcing childcare (you quite literally need two nannies to cover each other, weekend working, last minute travel etc) and that will cost you a lot of money. In the long run, that will work out as you will be earning serious money, but you won’t have been able to spend much time at all with your child. As I said upthread, it all depends on what sort of family life you envisage and what you’re prepared to compromise on.

I have a similar job and have worked out a hybrid schedule while my son is at nursery. I work from 830-4, get buddy, and then work from 7-10:30/11 each night. On days I need to stay later or have a meeting during the 4-7 window, my husband steps in.

I’ll be honest, it’s exhausting and a complete shit show. I often have fire drills when I’m at home alone with the baby, so I just do what I can via phone and try to hang on.

If I could afford a nanny, I’d 100% have one. But frankly, it’s not possible and I was quoted 50,000-60,000 for the hours I requested with the competencies I was looking for.

I think one thing to emphasize is that the working world is at best agnostic toward mothers and at worst overtly hostile. Essentially, involved corporate jobs like ours will always tell you to just spend more money on childcare to work longer hours, even if it makes no financial sense.

My more fortunate friend did nursery + a nanny two days a week and that worked out well for her.

OP everything depends on the baby. They may be high needs, non sleeper etc. I appreciate you want the world to be fair and for your career to stay on track.

With the best will in the world one of the parents need to be available because sometimes children just need a parent when sick and that can be quite often.

In many ways the baby years are easier, it's a whole different ballgame breaking a four year olds heart because you can't attend something, or they get an hour before bed.

I was that soldier, I admit I stepped into a different more flexible career because I couldn't handle the guilt. I was in hedge funds and 99% of the women did the same. It isn't fair but I don't have regrets.

I hope it works for you, I really do.

@jannier you sound wonderful 😍

I'm a childminder children get dropped at 7am and collected at 6pm a bit later if tube issues. Breakfast and dinner at mine they treat it like visiting family. When they start school they go wrap around I have had some for 13 years. If parents can't make doctors or HV appointments I take them we do homework make book day costumes etc. it's like one big family. I still get the 15 year olds pop in if they want to chat rather than go home to an empty house.
I have the same qualifications if not better than a nursery manager and we work to the same standards.

Amazing for you. How old is DC? How’s the child doing in all this?

We aren't lawyers but do work senior professional roles.

I agree with everyone else that if you can't or don't want to compromise on hours, nanny is the way to go.

We did nursery and managed with: a day each off (compressed hours), a WFH day each, and alternated leaving on time on the final day.

It does involve sometimes saying no to work or delegating something you would rather not and sometimes we have lost out on opportunities. I missed a meeting the other week which would have been great for my career. It is what it is.

What I would say is that even if you go for the nanny, you will sometimes - though less frequently - still need to make some compromises with work. There will be times when the nanny calls in sick or your child is very unwell and you want to be with them. So don't assume that you have solved the problem completely.

FWIW a lot of my friends are lawyers and met at city law firms and almost all of the women work in house or in the government legal service now they have children so that they can still use their professional skills but have better work life balance. It's something to consider.

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

I think both working full time such long hours is going to be very stressful for you and I would worry about your baby never seeing his/her parents.
Could you/your husband compress your hours so you have a day to spend with him/her?
I have just become the first person in my workplace to keep all my additional responsibilities and work 4 days. I honestly think it's the way forward.

You need a nanny.

If you look past how the childcare choice impacts you and look at how it will impact your child then it becomes the obvious choice. Being looked after by one consistent caregiver in their own home, on a one to one ratio is clearly better for any child.

If you can't afford it then nursery is fine, but childcare is not the place to look for savings. Ultimately you've made the choice to have a baby that is going to need to be looked after by someone else for the majority of its waking hours, you owe it to this baby to provide the absolute best childcare you can possibly afford, even if that means cutting back in other areas.

In terms of practicalities you won't need to look for a nanny until a few months before you need one to start. Offer a good wage and good conditions to attract the best candidates.