School bathroom

Haven't you heard, it's because of feckless parents and COVID. Nothing to do with MATs being control freaks.

Complain and complain and complain. Single sex loos are a must.

Utterly ridiculous not to have access to a loo.

What the fuck is this country coming to when kids are denied toilets?

@crumblingschools

Do I ever visit schools?

😂😂😂

Until very, very recently, about 50 a year, sometimes to discuss some of the issues you mention. That enough for you? I've also conducted research visits to schools in other countries, none of which seem have these issues to this degree. Not all English schools are like this, the few LA secondaries left and some with a faith ethos which are LA controlled or part of a small trust seem to have better relationships with their children. Most of the issues seem to be in schools where one of the government's favourite MATs has ridden in on their white horses, promising great things and treating children like the units of income they obviously see them as. I could go on about the dry, abusive curriculum as well but let's blame parents and children instead eh? When you actively decide against child centred education, you push their needs to the periphery.
None of this is actually relevant to the topic at hand; using the toilet is an essential right and if the current school regime can't provide it, they should get out of the business.

I was a very bolshy teen. This rule would have had me pissing on the school property, ideally visible to passing public and loudly explaining why, every time the queue too long for the break. I would have delighted in it too, and would have loved the resulting row. Difficult teens are still difficult when denied toilet access.

I work in a school now. I'd still advise my DC to pee on the school grounds if they instituted this rule. I have wet myself on my way home from work once, years ago, when not allowed toilet access in the day and thought I could get back in time; humiliating in the extreme. Better only piss on the floor, than over the floor and yourself...

Reason #9726728 I'm happy to be home educating

And another biggie influencing behaviour is social media/internet/phones

@hobbi do you ever visit schools?

Some of the reasons schools are really struggling at the moment are

• children/families who need help and support from external agencies are not getting it. Schools are having to provide what support they can with no funding
• parents don't back schools up when their child has misbehaved
• many families do not value education, especially after lockdown
• many families expect schools to sort any parenting fails out
• staff retention crisis, many children don't cope if their go to adult for support leaves and is either replaced by someone else, or more likely now not to be replaced
• many families are struggling, cost of living, MH, DV, this transfers into school. Again, schools are meant to sort this without any funding
• many classes are being taught by inexperienced staff (sometimes not even a teacher)
• large class sizes, only going to get bigger with lack of staff
• not enough money to fund additional staff to give pastoral support

But the question remains, why? Why are English schools seemingly ruled by unruly children? The funding is irrelevant if the children are so bad. We know academies (using Newspeak) have 'inclusion' spaces, used to exclude children - could it be that the 'positive discipline' policies are actually negatively impacting on our children? Rules are much, much stricter than they've been since the 60s but this no toilet policy is relatively new. Perhaps a rethink of how we treat our young people is needed.

@Natsku maybe your schools have more funding and better quality buildings.

If you have a toilet block that has been vandalised, there is no money to fix it, so it has to be closed. So children have further to go to the next block. Children wandering round school corridors is usually a recipe for disaster

Not sure what the behaviour is like in your schools in your country but in schools in England it is currently horrendous, and toilets are where this behaviour can escalate unfortunately.

You can't retro fit individual loos around school buildings. So those with blocks need to combat the assaults, the vandalism and the vaping.
With no funding and no spare resources, the only way to do this is by locking them and having a key for emergencies.

I think it's cruel and quite horrible. They have issues with vandalism of course in schools in my country but no one thinks locking the toilets is the answer. At my DD's school they can go to the toilet whenever they need to, even during lessons if necessary, and the toilets are individual self contained loos dotted about the school so no one has to go far to get to the toilet (there might even be one per classroom, I'm not sure)

Schools are in a really hard place, for every parent complaining that a number of toilets are locked, there will be a parent complaining that their child is too scared to go to the toilet even if all toilets are open due to the behaviour in the toilets. Schools don't have the funding/staff to supervise toilets all the time.

Although they could have CCTV at the opening of the toilet block they obviously can't have it in the cubicles or facing near the cubicles. So if there is evidence of children vaping, all pupils that are seen going into the toilet block could be accused of vaping as would not be possible to see which one was involved. Again you would have a parent complaining that their child has been unfairly punished.

And there will be examples of students having accidents rather than using toilets.

If any of you have the answers which don't involve spending any additional money schools would love to know.

No, not being obtuse but pointing out that not all children are misbehaving. To deny a child the use of a toilet is barbaric. You say children wouldn’t use the toilet but sadly some just don’t have a choice, they cannot wait a whole school day.

whilst I recognise schools are extremely poorly funded it doesn’t detract from the right to be able to use the toilet.

Lack of funding doesn't excuse teenage girls bleeding through their clothes as they have been denied use of a toilet.

@crumblingschools

The question remains, is it reasonable to expect children to go without toilet facilities? It's not up to us to fund it. Is it reasonable or not?

@Littlestlolo are you deliberately being obtuse. Vaping, vandalism, sexual harassment, fighting and just general hiding out in the toilets is rife in school toilets. You would be amazed by how many parents don’t bat an eyelid if their child is involved in anti social behaviour and won’t back the school up if their child is caught.

Many children won’t use school toilets for the above reasons, Wouldn’t make any difference if the toilets were open throughout the whole school day they still won’t use them.

Please feel free to give the schools more funding so they can have staff available to supervise the toilets and other staff to help manage behaviour throughout the school

So needing to urinate is a child misbehaving or behaving anti-socially? What about a child with incontinence issues or a girl who has her period?

@Querty123456

Of course parents should back the school when their child had done something wrong. What a strange non sequitur. I've visited dozens of academies over the last few years and there's never a shortage of staff roaming the corridors with walkie-talkies looking for behaviour indiscretions or hauling kids off to the Orwellian named 'inclusion.'

I rightly predicted someone would defend the policy. I would be interested to see what parents with children in school in other countries think of this, and why they think English children are uniquely deserving of this restriction of their rights.

And where would you divert staff members from to staff this? It would mean closing the school library, and probably taking support from echp students who have an entitlement to TA support. Although it my school TA’s would refuse to be doing such a duty on minimum wage.
Parents need to support schools and ensure that when their child has misbehaved or behaved anti-socially that they back the school to the hilt.

There will be apologists for the policy on here but the policy is barbaric. There are problems with behaviour around toilet use in schools but that isn't a problem that most children are responsible for. The right to sanitation is part of article 11 of ICESCR. Schools seem to have the resources to strictly police whether or not a pupil is wearing the right colour socks or shoe soles but are seemingly unwilling to station a staff member near toilet facilities at set times.

Students caused £20k worth of damage in toilet block at local school

Sexual assault happening in school toilets is barbaric.