Nanny justifing shouting, snappy, moody stressed behaviour with children...!!

sometimes nannies don't gel with their charges - could this be the case?

Whatever the case you need to make it clear you will not accept her shouting and screaming at your children.

Poor you. I had PND and nanny problems and it's 10x more difficult when you are struggling yourself.

Don't know what to say, as i think some of my problems with my nanny were compounded by not feeling outgoing or sociable to people, and so not building a great relationship with her. However, I also felt that she took advantage of my being a bit defenceless to take the piss in various ways.

I don't think your nanny should shout, and I don't think you should have as many problems ('weeks of discussions') persuading her not to.

I also know some nannies who are pretty negative about certain of their charges, and I hope yours is not one of them, as it might be difficult to turn the situation around if she's made up her mind.

as are all school children I find. My day tends to go perfectly well until school collection time. It's the last few hours of the job which are the toughest... children coming home from school are often tired, irritable and easily wind each other up.

Agree with you that getting as much ready before they get home will help things. Summer is luckly approaching, so early evening picnics in the garden become a possibility.

Is this the nanny who is the qualified teacher (but not ever working as a teacher), who you had safety concerns over back in April last year?
I think that nanny left (was dismissed).
Assuming you are now talking about a new nanny (you have mentioned in the past that your new nanny is excellent - "The children love her and she is very caring, organised, efficient etc." source) then it does sound like something has changed recently which is affecting your nannies work abilities.

"When she arrives she looks wrecked/exhausted and in a bad mood" - that does not sound good. Is she having trouble sleeping, could she be taking drugs (be it legal ones of illegal). Have you talked with her regarding why she is coming to work looking tired?

she doesn't sound very professional. whatever is happening in her personal life shouldn't affect her work. you're paying her to do a job.

No no no this is all wrong.

She should not be shouting at the kids and though she has a snmall point about kids playing off mum and nanny this is far bigger than that.

You need to sort this quickly as she is meant to be doing a job of looking after precious children and she isn't managing herself very well.

Poor kids.

I was a nanny and am now a mum and would never never never have shouted or screamed at the kids in front of the parents or when they weren't there.

She has seen you shout? Cheeky mare.

Is tea on the table when the older children arrive home? 4.30pm at my work is typical time for tea.
Does your nanny have all 4 of them at any other time... for example during school holidays? Are there issues then, or is it only at evening mealtime?

If she wishes you were a fly on the wall - do you have a video camera? Could the nanny set up the video camera so that it say recorded Tea Time at the dinner table... so then you could all (older 3 children, nanny and yourself) playback the recording and discuss what behaviour is undesirable, what could be made better (children able to help themselves to food for example, or if that happens at the moment, then plating up the food in the kitchen), interaction between everyone, position people sit, length of time meal takes, all sorts of things.

If table manners are a flashpoint... are you that concerned about your children's table manners, that you want your nanny to be insisting that the children meet whatever her expectation is. Perhaps the 'rules' could be relaxed a bit.
If sticking to certain rules at the dinner table is a must, then the older children may find that making a list of the rules on a large sheet of paper will help them to remember the rules, and discuss what disciplinary method will be used for when they don't remember, or point blankly refuse to comply with those rules.
4 children is hard, but your nanny isn't having all 4 for long. Is there something specific the older children are doing, which winds your nanny up? Is it their tablemanners, or is there something else, like bickering, fighting.

If the nanny is a professional and good at her job, she will know how to discipline children, as JennaJ says. It sounds like something is beyond her control and it might not actually be the children. Maybe she feels she is in the wrong job (either because she is not up to it or because she wishes she was doing something else). Sometimes too, the nanny, as we all do, might be taking frustrations out on the children that she is actually indirectly aiming at you? Have there been other disagreements?

It sounds to me like you need to have a chat with her, AWAY from the house and children, just like you might with staff at work. It must be off-site, and not emotional or confrontational. She may need a "are you happy in your job?" type discussion. Remember you have employed her, but she is part of your family...

What went on in her life at Christmas for her to think that shouting is ok?

Screaming and snapping at children from someone paid to look after them is not on. It's no way to discipline children. And what I find most bothersome is that she doesn't see that she's doing anything wrong.

I think there might be a control issue - maybe she's trying to assert some authority over you or the children, or maybe she felt too embarrassed to admit she was wrong and back down.

how old are your children btw? Can you ask them in a tactful way how things are when they are on their own with her?

What's causing her change of behaviour do you think? Is she unhappy in her job or is there something going on in her personal life? Not that that makes it ok to shout of course, but I think you need to get to the bottom of it.

no, it isn't ok
I mean we are all human and I am sure I did some things as a nanny that weren't great
but I think trying to justify it in cold blood doesn't bode well

NO NO NO! You're not paying someone to do something you can do yourself for free! Her job is to be calm, consistent and professional and it is a complete red herring to say that because you sometimes lose it it's OK for her to.

Rather than that she is shouting at the children my concern would be what does she think your children are doing that is so wrong that she feels she needs to keep shouting/ snapping at them...and if she shouts at them when you are within earshot (and nannies from personal experience are generally on best behaviour when in earshot of parents) what is she doing when you are not around!!

As a nanny I don't need to shout at my charges and never have done. They are not doing anything that warrants being shouted at and if they were there are with just a few exceptions far better ways of disciplining children than screaming at them!! I don't really shout at my own children either...very ocassionally in exasperation at bedtime etc but I don't find it achieves much in general!!

Sounds like she may be unhappy in her job and taking it out on the children OR not particularly well trained and out of her league!

Using the fact that you shout at your children as making it acceptable really isn't excuasable. BUT if she is a bit out of her depth maybe she is using your parenting skills as an example to follow..

I think you need to make sure you have regular chats with her and make it clear that while she may not agree with you that they are your children and you are employing her to do the job your way!! Easier said than done Im sure!

Jenna

It's not OK. I wouldn't tolerate it.

Well shouting at the children is in the contract with my nanny as a disciplinary offense!

So no - i definitely don't think it is okay!