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Original poster

Childcare and working - WWYD?

65 replies

Wittyname10 · 13/10/2023 12:43

I've received lots of helpful advice here in the past and am coming to the wise sages of mumsnet for more help.

I work in a job that is seasonal, think 5 months of busy/on the phone/sales etc, 7 months of being relatively quiet, with spreadsheets and lots of desk-based work.

My wife and I have 2 kids, 2.5 yo boy and 4.5 year old girl. Daughter will be going to school in August - Scotland - and son will be starting nursery in February when he turns 3.

For various reasons we are now on to our third childminder in our rural setting. They are very limited in number and the ones we have fill up very quickly.

Current childminder who looks after my son had to give up caring for our daughter as she was having to do school runs of her own and sending over an hour each way dropping off/picking up my daughter and her kids, with my son spending way longer than she was happy with in the car.

I have been WFH on Mondays and Tuesdays so I can drop the kids off and pick my daughter up from nursery at 3pm, my wife picking up my son on her way home from work at 5pm.

When I get home at 3.10 with my daughter she has TV for an hour or so, and then busies herself with activities, colouring and painting or imaginative play etc.

I was called in to my line manager this morning to discuss the situation, as this WFH is not contracted, but has been something everyone has been doing since COVID. The company even consulted on hybrid working to assess how it was working for everyone and approved to continue the hybrid set up.

My situation was approved - unofficially - by my line manager who said if asked he cannot lie, but won't mention anything to senior managers.

I was told this morning it has been questioned, with a screenshot being sent of me appearing to be "away" (MS teams) for over an hour. I was not privvy to when this was but I could have been on my mobile/having lunch etc. The point is that there are times where I'm not active on Teams and sometimes maybe take a longer coffee break than I would at the office if I'm WFH when theres not a lot happening work-wise (this time of year is what we call the "dead zone" between sales ending and end of year things starting).

Now I should point out that when I WFH I am online usually an hour before I need to be to accommodate the school run, will respond to emails after working hours etc, so I'm trying to re-pay the company in terms of time because they are (were) accommodating my needs.

I was told this morning that a potential promotion in the next year is being reconsidered as I am perceived to not be flexible enough to do the job that is coming up. It will involve a lot of travel, and I'm being told that me needing to be at home for school runs 2 days a week inhibits my ability to do the job.

We will not be able to find any childcare options, wraparound care has cost us 2 childminders already and isn't really an option. Everyone is full, including the private nurseries around us.

Family are close to us, but it's unfair to expect them to step in for 2 days a week - particularly my BIL as they have 3 kids of their own so couldn't take their kids and ours to/from nursery/school in 1 run anyway.

My wifes parents are retired and are busy people, they already do a day per week of childcare for us as well as various bits and bobs of childcare for my BIL's 3 kids.

My parents are 80 miles away, so I'd be asking them to come through weekly to do about 8 hours of childcare over 2 days.

My wife is already working her minimum hours at work and cannot do any less than her 3.5 days per week.

Sorry this is so long, I didn't want to leave anything out.

My options are:

1 - I tell work I have explored every option and this is literally all I can do, accepting it will effectively rule me out of an opportunity that will not come around again in the next possibly 30 years and make do with hat I've got.

2 - I tell work I need more flexibility and if they cannot provide this I will be looking elsewhere.

3 - Place an unfair burden on my family in order to advance my career

4 - Ask my wife to look for a job that can allow her to drop more time, which we could just about manage financially, but she'd be dropping a whole day at work to pick up the kids at 3pm which seems total overkill.

5 - anything else?

This is a nightmare, so thank you for reading and contributing. All opinions welcome.

OP posts:
Whatelsecouldibecalled · 14/10/2023 22:16

Welcome to most working mothers drama. It's shit.

I would say option 2 is your best option. Can you not work through lunch and take your lunch break for school run?

OhamIreally · 14/10/2023 22:12

Do you not understand though that you can't expect to take a full lunch break AND do the school run?

It's fine to ask for flexibility but that doesn't mean you don't work your hours.

Being "ready to work" is not the same as working. I wfh and am at my desk during my working day. I look for areas i can improve during quiet times, develop processes etc.

Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 20:31

UniKnow · 14/10/2023 20:14

On a practical level, maybe you could find someone locally who could collect your daughter from school, bring her home and then stay with her until you or your wife finish work? This would be an ‘after school nanny’ type arrangement which doesn’t require the person to register with OFSTED like a childminder would. It may suit a semi retired person looking to make a little extra money. Or perhaps someone with a young child or their own who they could bring along.

It’s an idea my in-laws have floated because they did that when they were in a similar position us. However we are reasonably new here and don’t really know many people locally.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 20:29

BiscuitsandPuffin · 14/10/2023 20:23

It doesn't sound like they're unhappy with hybrid working though. They're unhappy because it looks like you're taking the piss and not working when they expect you to be working. They trusted you to WFH and you're off gallivanting around doing a workout or running and so on.

It's not hard to be slightly conscientious of the fact that WFH is monitored, and wiggle the mouse once every few minutes, unless you've literally walked away from your tasks. The entitlement here is astounding, why should they pay you (or promote you) when you can't be trusted to actually be ready to work when you're supposed to be?

Going running and taking long coffee breaks and all this other crap during the working day is what's killed it for you, you can't do that and the school run, you have to pick one and be utterly present and diligent the rest of the time!

Edited
Show quote history

I am always ready to work. Always. I have no doubt about that. If I’m not at my desk I have my headset on and my phone in my pocket, if not in my hand. If I choose to take my lunch break and go for a run then take my lunch at my desk that’s up to me.

OP posts:
BiscuitsandPuffin · 14/10/2023 20:23

Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 12:19

That’s a good idea. What I don’t understand is if they’re unhappy with hybrid working why did they consult the staff on it and then confirm they were going to continue with the arrangement?

It doesn't sound like they're unhappy with hybrid working though. They're unhappy because it looks like you're taking the piss and not working when they expect you to be working. They trusted you to WFH and you're off gallivanting around doing a workout or running and so on.

It's not hard to be slightly conscientious of the fact that WFH is monitored, and wiggle the mouse once every few minutes, unless you've literally walked away from your tasks. The entitlement here is astounding, why should they pay you (or promote you) when you can't be trusted to actually be ready to work when you're supposed to be?

Going running and taking long coffee breaks and all this other crap during the working day is what's killed it for you, you can't do that and the school run, you have to pick one and be utterly present and diligent the rest of the time!

UniKnow · 14/10/2023 20:14

On a practical level, maybe you could find someone locally who could collect your daughter from school, bring her home and then stay with her until you or your wife finish work? This would be an ‘after school nanny’ type arrangement which doesn’t require the person to register with OFSTED like a childminder would. It may suit a semi retired person looking to make a little extra money. Or perhaps someone with a young child or their own who they could bring along.

UniKnow · 14/10/2023 20:11

I think the issue is that hybrid working doesn’t mean you can dictate when you work from home and then not actually work at home but instead look after your children.

CloudWhisperer · 14/10/2023 18:56

I would look into paying someone who can do the school runs for you on those days and brings the children home and stays with them. I don't know if this falls under an au pair remit or a babysitter. Are you on your local facebook? You could ask for solutions to this issue. A childminder looks after children in their home, a babysitter/nanny/au pair looks after a child in their own home. I know that some people need to add experience of working with children to their CV and do this alongside their studies but I live in a city so in your rural location this may be more difficult to source.

It does seem very shitty that the company has all of a sudden shone a spotlight on your performance which they didn't have an issue with before.

SheilaFentiman · 14/10/2023 18:22

“I guess be a bit more sympathetic to the circumstances? I need them to be flexible for 4 hours a week which I’m being told is killing chances of promotion. “

But the issue isn’t 4h a week, is it? It’s that you need to be at pick up at 3pm 2 out of 5 days a week, which in a role that involves travel, presumably means you could do little or no travel on those days.

SheilaFentiman · 14/10/2023 13:08

Also - if they are turning a bit of a blind eye to 4h of wfh whilst covering childcare, you probably do have to be spotless on not taking a longer lunch etc.

SheilaFentiman · 14/10/2023 13:06

Is it hybrid working they are unhappy with, or childcare whilst WFH?

Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 12:19

That’s a good idea. What I don’t understand is if they’re unhappy with hybrid working why did they consult the staff on it and then confirm they were going to continue with the arrangement?

OP posts:
Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 12:11

EggTheParrot · 14/10/2023 10:44

Where does op specify they're a man?

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For the avoidance of doubt, yes I am male.

And for what it’s worth I can actually empathise that it must be quite refreshing to see a man on the shitty end of employment/childcare issues!

OP posts:
Hayliebells · 14/10/2023 11:53

I think you’re right to go for a combo of 1 and 2. It does sound like even if you don’t go for promotion, your employer are not happy with the WFH set up. I’d submit a formal flexible working request, as is your right, and see what they do. Without one aren’t you in breech of contract? I’d also look for another job.

SecondUsername4me · 14/10/2023 11:43

EggTheParrot · 14/10/2023 10:44

Where does op specify they're a man?

Show quote history

I assume the OP is a man because on other threads they've posted on they say things like "as a man...." or "30, male" etc.

EggTheParrot · 14/10/2023 10:44

SecondUsername4me · 14/10/2023 09:58

I guess be a bit more sympathetic to the circumstances? I need them to be flexible for 4 hours a week which I’m being told is killing chances of promotion

I don't intend this to sound nasty, but it's so bloody refreshing to see a man on the receiving end of this, as I know so so many women whose careers have stagnated as they need to be flexible for their families.

Welcome, OP. It sucks. But it's actually the norm for working mums.

Where does op specify they're a man?

SecondUsername4me · 14/10/2023 09:58

I guess be a bit more sympathetic to the circumstances? I need them to be flexible for 4 hours a week which I’m being told is killing chances of promotion

I don't intend this to sound nasty, but it's so bloody refreshing to see a man on the receiving end of this, as I know so so many women whose careers have stagnated as they need to be flexible for their families.

Welcome, OP. It sucks. But it's actually the norm for working mums.

FallingAutumnLeaf · 14/10/2023 09:50

If the extra travel came off, what would you do regarding childcare on the days that you would normally do the school collection but you are at a client?

I think travel with the amount if childcare you have available to you would be very stressful, and you need to consider that before going for a promotion.

UniKnow · 14/10/2023 09:42

I guess be a bit more sympathetic to the circumstances?

But they are being sympathetic to your circumstances. They are allowing (or at least turning a blind eye to) you to work from home on two set days a week while caring for a young child (many employers wouldn’t allow this as it’s not fair on anyone - I wouldn’t and consider myself very reasonable). But they are saying that if you want to be considered for an area management role this won’t be possible as the role requires more flexibility. Now you know this you can decide whether you want to find a solution to your childcare issues or accept that you can’t do an area management role. I live in an area with insufficient childcare so I completely understand how hard it is. But ultimately this isn’t your employees fault or problem.

Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 09:17

OhamIreally · 13/10/2023 17:14

You don't have to be actively using Teams for it to keep your active status though. If it's showing you as away for an hour then that's because you haven't made a keystroke or moved your mouse for over an hour.

As another option could you get an au pair?

Hmm if I’m really honest with myself I could have been off my computer for that length of time. It’s my own fault for not being attentive enough but it was a one off. But when you’re WFH and there is nothing to do I don’t think you should be expected to sit at your desk waiting for something to come across it.

I go for a run/walk/cycle for my lunch break and take lunch at my desk so it was probably tied to lunch break and then having nothing much to do either side of it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 09:14

coronafiona · 13/10/2023 20:44

5- carry on as you are?

I’m leaning towards telling them I don’t want to be considered for promotion and I’m happy in my current role as the timing isn’t right for me and my family.

I think eventually I would move on if I had to do this.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 09:13

SheilaFentiman · 14/10/2023 07:48

When you said there wouldn’t be another chance at promotion for 30 years, was that a typo? Did you mean 3?

No I meant up to 30, it’s a regional management job that is an excellent opportunity for the right person. Equally it could be as little as 5 years if the person who comes in is an older head who’s closer to retirement.

OP posts:
Original poster
Wittyname10 · 14/10/2023 09:10

UniKnow · 13/10/2023 20:34

@Wittyname10 - what do you want your employer to do?

I guess be a bit more sympathetic to the circumstances? I need them to be flexible for 4 hours a week which I’m being told is killing chances of promotion.

I don’t know. I think one of the main issues with my company is that all the senior managers either haven’t got kids or when they did it was 30 years ago and their wives stayed at home to do the childcare duties.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 14/10/2023 07:48

When you said there wouldn’t be another chance at promotion for 30 years, was that a typo? Did you mean 3?

coronafiona · 13/10/2023 20:44

5- carry on as you are?

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