Nanny Holidays -- feel I have been used??

busy busy. I can't keep up with the west lond thread. There is way too much chat. But I do manage to organise some Southwest London meet ups. There one brewing for April if you want to go have a look.

How are you? How's that gorgeous boy?

I can't believe anyone thinks that it is reasonable to give any employer one weeks notice of a week off.

haven't seen you around - are you busy?

It seems this little debates has brought about one useful point, nanny employers should all take note and write into their contracts what restriction they do want above and beyond two weeks notice for nanny holiday requests.

For example, we will be getting a new nanny in September when DS will be going to school. So, I think I will stipulate that nanny holidays must coincide with school holidays. And that will cover me above and beyond what is said on the now infamous link in case I forget to respond promptly.

can I clarify - the Govt site says you must give at least blah blah blah notice (as said earlier) but contractual agreements can overrule legal minimums in this case and many others.

"Your contract may set out other rules about when you can take your holiday. This is allowed so long as the rules don't effectively prevent you from taking holiday at all."

The same is true for example of notice periods - there is a legal minimum assumped but you can have a contract applying different terms.

It would be completely impractical in my case as I need to give one months notice to my employer of any holiday of 5 days or more. I would need a nanny's contract to at least mirror that or the children would be locked in a shed in the garden during the nanny's leave if I couldn't get mine approved. I gather thats frowned upon in most circles.

yes, that is exactly what I'm saying eleusis. I am very familiar with the contents of the link, which I posted because I thought it might have some useful and informative points for both employers and nannies on this thread.

As I post links from that website for people everyday, I'm afraid I had to challenge your comments that you felt it was a 'suggestion' and that the contents of your own contract were more important, it was very important to me that people reading this are aware that that is not the case.

I think I'll write in my next contrat "All requests for holiday are assumed to not be granted unless otherwise stated by employer in writing".

I won't really, I'm just making a point that there are most certainly ways to write the contract so that this right to holiday two weeks after requesting it don't actually apply in practice.

Besdies, as I said before, in my case the holidays are written into the contract and there is no right for either of us to change them.

Besides, all your really saying is that the employers among should just remember to say no to the holiday promptly.

Your link even says that the employer may choose all of the holiday and apply some to bank hols.

People can put whatever they like in a contract, they can sign it etc but it does not mean that the provisions within it are legal, which is why there are statues like the Unfair Contract Terms Act and so on...

Didn't realise we were trying to score points, sorry. I just couldn't be bothered to keep repeating myself. There's nothing illegal in your contract, in what you are doing, and I never said there was! Don't know where that came from.

I was just highly amused at the thought that employment law guidance on a govt website is a series of suggestions, for you to pick and choose. I was also amused that you think your legal contract supercedes employment law, it doesn't. The reason your contract is legal is because it fits within those guidelines perfectly well. No one suggested you were acting illegally! I think what you are doing is perfectly reasonable and legal and have never said otherwise!
I said 'whatever' because I really couldn't be bothered to spell it out anymore, but if you want a more considered, intelligent response, here it is.

Wow, I haven't considered that word as a point scoring response since i was oh... 13 or so.

It's all in the attitude, flowerybeanbag. If you go to your employer (no matter what your line of work) and say you owe me this and that and here is my legal entitlement blah blah blah, you find them much less accommodating then if you sit down and say please my friend is getting married and I really want to be there, but it means 3 weeks in Australia on these dates. The latter I would bend over backwards to accommodate. The former I would say sorry but those dates don't work for me on account of the shourt motice.

Whatever!

Actually, I don't have to do any such thing. We agree the holidays and write them into the 12 month fixed term contract with one month of her begining the job. If she wants to shift them and I am able to accommodate I'm usually more than happy to do so. If she announced she wanted a week off in two weeks, I'd have to check with work, check with DH to check with his work, follow up with DH to check with his work, follow up with DH again... and oh yeah try and book a holiday for me, oh and let's not forget checking the school calendar... Sorry, there is no such right in my world. And my world is perfectly legal.

So if you want to crying your legal right, then perhaps I'll remind you of our legal contract.

ROFL!!

No, if it says 'must' on a goverment website, it's not a 'suggestion'! But I'm not sure how it would affect you negatively? An employee must give notice of at least 2x the length of their holiday, and if an employer wishes to refuse it, they must give at least 1x the length of the holiday to do so. So if your nanny wants to take a 2 week holiday, she must give 4 weeks' notice. If you want to refuse her request, you must give at least 2 weeks' notice of that, in other words you can't say no a couple of days before.

Flowerybeanbag, those look like suggestions, especially since it also states that employer can choose all of the holidays.

I wouldn't appreciate it if my nanny had a habit of taking a week off with only two weeks notice. I'm afraid the answer would be "no" if that became a habit because it hardly gives me time to sort out my own work/childcare/holiday arrangements.

I am generally happy to accommodate her requests, but I expect a lot more notice than that.

It does sound like she is taking the pee.

I think half and half is fair tbh. If you choose to take extra on top of the 4 weeks, that is up to you but you shouldn't have to get cover for more than 2 weeks a year imo. (Ex-nanny)

Here information about taking holiday entitlements, what notice must be given etc

An nanny is an employee, not a God.

There is respect and there is slavish aquiescence of outlandish requests and piss taking, and respect is a two way street.

Knakered, I think you should rewrite the contract, to the effect that the nanny will choose 10 days holiday and you will guarantee her 10 days at a time of your choosing. You would not be unreasonable to ask her to come into the house to do nursery duties whilst you are on holiday (subject to her getting 20 days holiday a year.) Not every holiday, but maybe a day or two. Ask her to do things like sewing name tapes on and spring cleaning bedrooms.

She's getting an awful lot of holiday - I'm assuming her pay doesn't reflect that.

As a nanny I am a little disappointed at tone suggested in some posts when talking about your nannies. They take care of your children which, to you, should be the most imporant job in the world and I think they deserve to be treated with respect and be a valued addition to your family, not someone out to make your life difficult and to get what they can.

Legally, employees should request holidays in advance, giving at least twice the notice as the amount of holiday. Eg. 1 week of holiday should be requested at least 2 weeks before the holiday dates.

It is correct that an employer can dictate when an employee takes their holidays however that arrangement would not suit the majority of people. As a previous poster pointed out families would not be happy to have the nanny decide all of their holidays so you should not expect that to be ok for the nanny either. Nannies have partners and families too and a 50-50 split on choosing holidays seems to be most fair.

Well yes I realise I don't technically need to put anything, but as most nannies seem to have it in their contract that they can choose half, I would like to put something in saying we will accommodate where possible but will specify if not.

I don't think you neeed to write that option. Unless the contact explicitly says she can choose the holidays without your approval, then she can't.

Maybe something like "Holidays requests should be made at leat 6 weeks prior to commencement for employers approval" would protect you.

But, personally, I would write them into the contract.

I have a new nanny starting March 1st, and we have already agreed the hols through SEptember, which is when she is leaving.

I do the same as most - specify that nanny can choose 2 weeks and we choose the rest. But, its true that you don't have to do that - you coudl insist that you choose all the dates (but at your peril!)
My situation is complicated by the fact that its a nanny share, and also by the fact that my nanny tends not to ask for any holidays - so I worked out that in the year she has worked for us, she hasn't had a proper holiday (from both jobs) at all! so i have ended up suggesting she takes leave from us when her other family is on holiday - in effect forcing her to have holiday she probably wouldn't have requested...and taking all the burden of nanny leave myself while the other family does nothing...I'm just too nice

I am currently looking for my first nanny. My plan is to put in the contract that we will try wherever possible to accommodate nanny's holiday requests, but reserve the right to specify when holiday is to be taken where necessary.

I fully anticipate that we will be able to accommodate her for at least some of it, but I need that option in there.