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Original poster

Childcare reform: what about parents not on benefits?

212 replies

justwren · 12/03/2023 00:16

So universal credit claimants will be entitled to more help with childcare costs as announced by the govt this week.
What about those who aren't on benefits?
We're the ones who have to be finding 14k a year for one child in nursery. I'm not entitled to any benefits because my husband earns £34k a year. That's hardly millions!

Why is there no support being offered to the families who are having to pay for it in its entirety?

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ScruffyGiraffe · 12/03/2023 17:27

Oscarover · 12/03/2023 17:05

All children age 3 are eligible for 15 hours. This raises to 30 hours if both parents are either working 16 hours or more or are earning the equivalent of 16 hours. Once someone earns over £100000 they no longer qualify however, both parents can be earning £99000 a year each and they would still qualify as each of them earn less than the threshold.

Yep. Just like with the removal of child benefit, and the tax free personal allowance, and the threshold for higher rate tax... if there are two of you to do all the work/ childcare apparently you should also get much more free childcare/ lower tax than those who have to do it on their own. 🙄🤦🏼‍♀️

ScruffyGiraffe · 12/03/2023 17:25

Other point : there is no '30 free hours' at 3 unless you're on low income or various benefits. It's fifteen hours if you're not in those categories.

No, 15 hours under 3 is for very low income families.

15 hours over 3 is for all families. An additional 15 hours over 3 is for families where all adults work and their earnings are above and below certain thresholds. Again, these are set by individual incomes per adult not by total household income so grossly unfair.

And the 15 hours in the slogans is actually 11. 30 is actually 22. Because the amounts quoted would be if you only had term-time only childcare, which is the case for a vanishingly small proportion of working parents.

And these "funded" hours aren't even properly funded anyway so you usually have to pay top up fees for them, as well as paying in full for any additional hours you would need to actually make a job viable.

So all in all, fairly pointless. 🤣

ScruffyGiraffe · 12/03/2023 17:19

Anotherturnipforthebooks · 12/03/2023 16:53

Other points raised: there is no '30 free hours' at 3? unless you're on low income or various benefits. It's fifteen hours if you're not in those categories.

It's 30 hours if both parents work. I think that's what people are referring to.

No. It's 22 hours per week, at the term after they turn three, if all adults in the household work and don't earn too little or too much to meet the thresholds. It would only be 30 hours if you met those thresholds AND only need childcare during school term times. Which hardly anybody does.

ScruffyGiraffe · 12/03/2023 17:17

@freyamay74 I'm not proposing parents be "taxed more favourably if they split up". The current system taxes single people less favourably than couples. I'm suggesting that all household units should be taxed on the same basis - the same tax levied on the same household income - as in the case in most decent tax systems in advanced economies. Nobody is asking for special treatment. Single parents will still be at a huge disadvantage, don't worry, having to juggle work and childcare in just 24 hours per day while couples have 24 to do so. You just wouldn't get single parents subsidising you paying less tax than them on the same earnings, there would be a level playing field where households with the same income paid the same amount of tax. The fact you want to continue disadvantaging people who are already at a significant disadvantage to you by expecting them to pay a higher proportion of household income as tax than you do on top of that is shameful.

Juiceboxxy · 12/03/2023 17:16

justwren · 12/03/2023 16:51

No it's not. It's fifteen unless you're low income or on benefit

Show quote history

You're wrong about this.
Parents in work (single or couple) only get 30 free hours if they earn above a certain amount. Those very low income, won't get it.

itsgettingweird · 12/03/2023 17:15

Have you put your details into entitled to?

I did it as if your DH, caring for someone on low rate pip who doesn't have limited capacity to work but is T employed. I used £34k a year gross as earned income. And paying £1k a month childcare.

I used my postcode and child turning 2 this year.

Owning a property with council tax band C.

It said you would be entitled to UC and CB through UC too.

So unless I'm missing something obvious I don't understand why you can't get UC? The amount it gave me would cover a good proportion of childcare costs.

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 17:12

dangermousesfriend · 12/03/2023 17:11

@justwren why are you not claiming ESA?

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/employment-and-support-allowance/

You have to have made a certain amount of NI contributions from working before you qualify for ESA. Not enough contributions - no ESA.

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dangermousesfriend · 12/03/2023 17:11

@justwren why are you not claiming ESA?

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/benefits-entitlements/employment-and-support-allowance/

trevthecat · 12/03/2023 17:08

Or on certain benefits

trevthecat · 12/03/2023 17:08

You are wrong about the 30 hours. Both parents need to be working and earn over £152 a week to be entitled unless you are a single parent. You dont need to be on benefits. Can I suggest you check childcarechoices.co.uk for accurate details

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 17:07

Anyone else on a modest household income who thinks that our families are being ignored by this new budget?
It further helps those on UC with their already significantly subsidised childcare costs. Good.

Now what about everyone else?

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Looneytune253 · 12/03/2023 17:06

30 hours is defo not for those only on low income or benefits. It's almost the opposite. For that you must be working (you may qualify because you can't work). People who don't work don't get it at all, only the 15 hours

Oscarover · 12/03/2023 17:05

All children age 3 are eligible for 15 hours. This raises to 30 hours if both parents are either working 16 hours or more or are earning the equivalent of 16 hours. Once someone earns over £100000 they no longer qualify however, both parents can be earning £99000 a year each and they would still qualify as each of them earn less than the threshold.

Elmo230885 · 12/03/2023 17:05

It's been said before on this thread but you will be entitled to 30 hours. (In England, can't speak for elsewhere)

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 17:04

modgepodge · 12/03/2023 16:59

I do agree with you OP though, that there needs to be more help for families not on benefits before children turn 3. £14k per year is ridiculous. It also needs reforming do it is funded properly and nurseries don’t have to have these ridiculous policies where it costs £100s a month to actually use the ‘free hours’.

Yup. We're just overlooked for all sorts of stupid reasons.

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Anotherturnipforthebooks · 12/03/2023 17:03

Why are you copying and pasting the same (incorrect) point over and over?

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 17:01

@EmilyGilmoresSass No need to be so aggressive. Christ.
I can't look after my son due to health problems. I'd love to, and I'd love to be working and contributing.

Other point : there is no '30 free hours' at 3 unless you're on low income or various benefits. It's fifteen hours if you're not in those categories.

I don't have anything about people on benefits. Good for you, get what you can.
I'm just saying that lots of people who do not qualify for benefits are left having to fund all childcare themselves.
We have one income - husband earns £34k.
The £14k I referenced is the childcare bill for a year for our ONE child.

OP posts:
modgepodge · 12/03/2023 16:59

I do agree with you OP though, that there needs to be more help for families not on benefits before children turn 3. £14k per year is ridiculous. It also needs reforming do it is funded properly and nurseries don’t have to have these ridiculous policies where it costs £100s a month to actually use the ‘free hours’.

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 16:58

Nw22 · 12/03/2023 14:10

I think this is really a kick in the teeth for most working parents. People on benefits have already had a 10% increase and loads of money towards energy bills. The tories just kept hammering middle income people

Exactly

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Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 16:58

LadyJ2023 · 12/03/2023 12:27

Actually it's 15-30 hours free child care depending on circumstances. If you have serious health issues then why aren't you getting pip or esa they have nothing to do with a partners wages. I have health issues, partner works full time, but our 3 youngest are still home just started looking into nurserys and we only have to pay a small amount currently towards it if I do put them in.

You have to pay for support services. I can't look after my son due to health problems. I'd love to, and I'd love to be working and contributing.

Other point : there is no '30 free hours' at 3 unless you're on low income or various benefits. It's fifteen hours if you're not in those categories.

I don't have anything against people on benefits. Good for you, get what you can.
I'm just saying that lots of people who do not qualify for benefits are left having to fund all childcare themselves.
We have one income - husband earns £34k.
The £14k I referenced is the childcare bill for a year for our ONE child.

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Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 16:56

IhearyouClemFandango · 12/03/2023 11:34

If the OP is so ill that they can neither work nor look after their children they will be eligible for some kind of help, which would then open the door to reduced price childcare etc.

Nope. I don't qualify for anything apart from lower rate PIP.

OP posts:
modgepodge · 12/03/2023 16:56

justwren · 12/03/2023 16:51

No it's not. It's fifteen unless you're low income or on benefit

Show quote history

You’re wrong. My daughter gets 30 hours free and my husband earns almost £100k. If both parents work (or if single I think just one parent) it’s 30, within certain income amounts. Not sure of the minimum but the max is £100k.

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 16:54

loudbatperson · 12/03/2023 10:58

If you have a health condition that impacts you to the extent you cannot do any paid work, you will most likely be entitled to some benefits.

You say you are not working right now, do you really need to be paying for childcare? As a household you are on a pretty low income, so paying for childcare when only one of you works seems nonsensical.

Not entitled to anything apart from lower rate PIP. This idea that if you have a disability you're entitled to 'benefits' is a myth. It's through UC. If you don't qualify for that, you can't access almost anything else.

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Anotherturnipforthebooks · 12/03/2023 16:53

Other points raised: there is no '30 free hours' at 3? unless you're on low income or various benefits. It's fifteen hours if you're not in those categories.

It's 30 hours if both parents work. I think that's what people are referring to.

Original poster
justwren · 12/03/2023 16:51

dancingmice · 12/03/2023 10:36

@justwren it is 30hrs as long as neither parent earns over £100k

No it's not. It's fifteen unless you're low income or on benefit

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