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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

Original poster

Does everyone think childcare should be paid for?

332 replies

Cococomellon · 01/01/2023 16:43

I have seen a lot of posts in social media about the cost of childcare, that it should be free and all the reasons in favour of that such as allowing both parents to work and the impact on the economy.

I can see how this would be a benefit. I have a young child and pay for childcare but I planned for this and it is not a surprise to me.

Who pays for this "free" childcare? Is there spare money the government has squirrelled somewhere? Should we all pay more taxes? Will the nhs get even less funding? Schools?

Perhaps I am just very right wing as I don't see to see the counter- arguments but I'm sure many people (some who don't have children) don't want to pay for others children to go to nursery?

OP posts:
jannier · 01/01/2023 21:34

Soontobe60 · 01/01/2023 18:01

Two things need to happen.

  1. the threshold for not being able to claim Child Benefit should be a COMBINED household net income of over £60k.
  2. the free 15 / 30 hours funding should be overhauled. It should be year round, not term time only. Parents should be able to have, for example, two full 7.5 hour days funded, 5 x 3 hours funded, 4 x 7.5 hour days funded. Instead it’s a mishmash of some free hours and some parental contribution which means that for some parents it’s just not viable.

Providers can offer this unfortunately the government said it was free childcare then once they rejected the sufficient funding levels proposed came up with proposals to help nurseries stay open...sessions with paid for times in between, putting up fees for non funded hours and younger children, consumables charges, holding down wages to all staff to minimum levels, asking parents to do volunteer work in offices and taking in ironing were all proposals made to settings by a consultancy company my LA employed to sell it to providers.

jannier · 01/01/2023 21:28

e323 · 01/01/2023 17:45

I think the prices are high and could definitely be reduced. However we do already get 20% Tax Free from the government and the 30 hours free when they turn 3.

Nurseries are already bursting at the brim. I had to reserve my second child's space before he was even born. So I think if it was made free there would be enough places for all the children anyway!

There bursting in some areas because so many have closed down due to not making money causing a shortage.

mumof1or2 · 01/01/2023 21:19

You say that many people, mainly those that don't have children, wouldn't want to pay for childcare with their taxes, but we pay for benefits even if we work, we pay for prisons even if we don't break the law etc etc so what's the difference? It undoubtedly would have a hugely positive affect on the economy.

MotherofPearl · 01/01/2023 20:42

Daydreamer22 · 01/01/2023 18:01

I don’t have children. I’m happy to pay taxes towards society which of course includes children’s education/ healthcare/child benefit, parents mat leave and so on etc even though I’ll never benefit. But for some reason I disagree with the childcare. Not sure why though.

People in most cases choose to have children surely it’s up to them to fund the childcare?

But you will benefit from paying taxes to support people having children (including childcare) because by the time you're retired, these children will be the ones generating the tax revenue to pay your pension and other state-funded benefits for pensioners.

jannier · 01/01/2023 20:39

Alfiexx1 · 01/01/2023 20:08

You’re providing the basics, most should want to provide more than just enough to survive.

Children who are exposed to new things, travel, clubs etc. are proven to do better in general than those who are not able to engage in these activities.

This is what’s meant by not having kids if you can’t afford childcare, as if you can’t even afford that, how will you cope later when they want to do more?

Show quote history

Just as well historically this hasn't happened or there would be a lot of staving rich people living in their own rubbish....what happens to those who become ill or made redundant so can't afford what they thought they could are those children forced into the scrap heap as never should have been borns? You don't need travel to be culturally aware and gain benefits of a good upbringing it's about access to good parks, play areas, messy play, variety of toys and books all stuff that costs to provide at home if your a nurse struggling to put food on a table and live in the only area you can afford....as Truss said on opening a food bank a few years ago people using food banks need to get better jobs....by by nursing.

tiggergoesbounce · 01/01/2023 20:38

I know people can find any data to back up their debate but i would be interested to read it and how if any other effects its had when implemented.

tiggergoesbounce · 01/01/2023 20:36

A ton of data over many, many years from all over OECD countries

Is there any specific to the uk? When im reading, i can't see any that states it will create a better economy or what figures they used to get to that?

MarshaMelrose · 01/01/2023 20:33

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 18:54

The countries that make childcare free ir very heavily subsidised (max a couple of hundred pounds per month) i.e. most of our comparable European neighbours plus some others do not do so out of altruism. They do so because it's been proved by the data to be beneficial for society as a whole.

It increases tax revenue and productivity. In reduces inequality. It stops the waste of many women's skills and aids their career progression, which then leads to more women later in life in senior positions and it's also been proved that companies with Boards with a mix of men and women in executive positions produce more profit and are more stable than those with men dominating, therefore greater ecomonic stability and more tax take. Higher productivity. Less stress on marriages so lower divorce rates, lower gender paygap, better example set to children, etc etc.

It's a no brainer basically and pays for itself many times over. That is why sensible countries subsidise it almost entirely/ fully cover the cost. The reason this doesn't happen in the UK is the same reason we have the lowest productivity in the G7, the reason we had Brexit, the reason the NHS and education are collapsing, the reason our infrastructure is falling apart and the reason that there were no plans in place for food and energy security: no long-term planning from successive Governments, and an electorate that doesn't demand it or hold them to account for not doing it.

It increases tax revenue

Is this your post that explains that it wouldn't cost the govt more to pay for the childcare than they'd receive in tax? Or is there another post?

Reugny · 01/01/2023 20:32

fUNNYfACE36 · 01/01/2023 20:12

No why should I pat for other people's kids when I've already paid fir 4 of my own?

You need more than your 4 to have a functioning society.

jannier · 01/01/2023 20:30

Alfiexx1 · 01/01/2023 19:24

It’s typical round here, actually one of the lower cost ones available in the local area.

Show quote history

But if I could afford to live in a different part of my borough and pay 4 times the mortgage my nursery would be 4 times the price because it pays 4 times the rent.....so it's relative to where you choose to live as well. I always advise looking along the commute or just outside an area to see if prices are better.

Newmum738 · 01/01/2023 20:30

felulageller · 01/01/2023 19:34

It's crazy economics that we don't do this.

No wonder our economy is failing.

We spend billions educating women only to have the 80% who have DC's to suffer detriment in the workplace, underemployment, discrimination, poverty, social exclusion, homelessness, etc etc because of the barrier of a lack of free community controlled childcare available to all mothers as and when needed.

It's such a massive waste of resources and potential. Underemployment of mothers costs us all billions every year.

The only reason for not doing it is misogyny.

This! We spend all that money educating girls only for them to work in low skilled part time jobs because they can't afford childcare and employers won't be flexible.

Patapouf · 01/01/2023 20:29

Some really weird responses on here for a parenting site 🤔

Yes the government should properly subside childcare. Not because it's enabling parents to shirk their responsibilities but because of the benefits it would bring to society.

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 20:28

tiggergoesbounce · 01/01/2023 20:26

@TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon

Sorry if you have already posted a link, but i couldn't see one that i could read later.

I was interested to see what figures they worked it out on.

A ton of data over many, many years from all over OECD countries.

MarshaMelrose · 01/01/2023 20:27

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 20:23

Can you explain it for me? I'm a bit of a dummy about these things. 🙂

Already did in my earlier post.

OK. Thanks. I'll go back and look.

tiggergoesbounce · 01/01/2023 20:26

@TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon

Sorry if you have already posted a link, but i couldn't see one that i could read later.

I was interested to see what figures they worked it out on.

Reugny · 01/01/2023 20:24

Hbh17 · 01/01/2023 19:15

Many people have no/fewer children because they know they can't afford it. Some of us are happily childfree. Why should both of those groups have to keep subsidising the less responsible who think it's OK to have as many children as they like because they expect the state (ie taxpayers) to fund them?
Children are the responsibility of their parents, and that includes financial responsibility.

If you have met some of the parents and offspring I've met you would want them in good childcare for 50 hours per week as you would realise it's cheaper than dealing with what they become as adults.

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 20:23

Can you explain it for me? I'm a bit of a dummy about these things. 🙂

Already did in my earlier post.

Hummusanddipdip · 01/01/2023 20:22

This is one of those things that always divides opinions drastically.

Ds has always only done 2 days a week at nursery. The monthly cost before his funding kicked in was almost half my wages. But when you broke it down, we paid between £5 and £6 an hour depending on his age (baby, toddler and preschool ages vary on charge). I think that cost is unreasonably low, and I believe providers should be paid more, however when you weigh it up against all your other bills, it's a big cost that's nice not to pay.

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 20:20

yellowspanner · 01/01/2023 19:38

I don't agree with free childcare. It's not free. Taxpayers would be paying for it.

I'll repeat it again, very slowly.

It

has

been

shown

to

more

than

pay

for

itself.

tiggergoesbounce · 01/01/2023 20:19

SlagathaChristie · 01/01/2023 20:10

If there is to be further state intervention/subsidies for child-rearing, I'd rather it went towards enabling families to have a parent at home (or working fewer hours). The marriage tax allowance is pitiful really, that could be more generous.

I'd rather be able to afford to have more involvement in raising my child than have "free" childcare.

I agree with this.
Surely the best way is to work it is where parents who do want more involvement in raising their kids have access to better working hours or working conditions which means subsidised or wrap around childcare isnt the only option for some.

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 20:18

felulageller · 01/01/2023 19:34

It's crazy economics that we don't do this.

No wonder our economy is failing.

We spend billions educating women only to have the 80% who have DC's to suffer detriment in the workplace, underemployment, discrimination, poverty, social exclusion, homelessness, etc etc because of the barrier of a lack of free community controlled childcare available to all mothers as and when needed.

It's such a massive waste of resources and potential. Underemployment of mothers costs us all billions every year.

The only reason for not doing it is misogyny.

Yep

Nirvanarama · 01/01/2023 20:16

You make it sound like you're either middle class or floating around in some grim ghetto doomed to a life of benefits and food banks.

We can afford the school clubs and the trips and we holiday once a year in the UK. We still can't afford childcare for our youngest, pluss wrap around for the eldest and holiday clubs outside of term time for both. HTH.

jannier · 01/01/2023 20:15

Yaslana · 01/01/2023 19:52

If you're working full time then you should be able to pay towards your own childcare? Its subsidised and is short term

Show quote history

Of course but with wages for professions like nursing being so low many use food banks the 30 hours or 22 stretched is massive help...but if you do not need 30 or 22 stretched why should you get more than you need.....you seem to think everyone working full time earns enough they don't.

MarshaMelrose · 01/01/2023 20:15

TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon · 01/01/2023 19:28

🤣🤣🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

Read a book about economics, please.

Show quote history

Can you explain it for me? I'm a bit of a dummy about these things. 🙂

Judgyjudgy · 01/01/2023 20:14

I don't think anything should be free, but it could certainly be subsidised so it is cheaper. I'd rather taxes were spent on people who worked and had children, than people who didn't