Nursery or child minder?

I agree with @Looneytune253
I work with many, many Nurseries, and they are almost all really struggling to employ staff. No Nursery I know is working over ratio.

I also agree about Childminders and taking "the big boys" to school. I LOVED the fact my dc went out every day with my CM, and weren't stuck in the same 4 walls for 9.5 hours every day. That was one of the real bonuses of a CMer over a Nursery for me.

I have to agree with you there @Looneytune253 . I do nursery supply work and every nursery I go to is chronically understaffed (obviously because I am there) and they are so desperate for staff that they allow flexible hours so basically, whatever anyone can do. I know a few workers who just do term time hours up until 2PM. Those who work just 1 or 2 days, or come in just to cover the lunch period. Very few work full-time Monday-Friday all day.
I've also heard cases where they have had to shut down rooms for the day as they are unable to staff it. Unfortunately this seems to be happening more and more. There's a huge crisis in childcare recruitment right now.

It's possibly only in the morning when all children aren't there. I would bet money all staff aren't in there all day. Most nurseries are financially on their knees at the moment and having to operate on basic ratios

Genuine question cos I see this a lot, why? To me being in the pram getting half an hour fresh air is a good thing? It's not like they're in there for hours or anything? Young babies love to look at all the new sights on the way and then have the big kids fuss over them. It's the same 4 walls usually in nurseries and on the rare occasions they get taken out I've not seen them have much fun. One of the local nurseries takes them all trudging about on reins thru the town centre and another one I've seen take them to the park, take one quick photo and back in the pushchair.

I can't speak for the PP but my son's (local authority children's centre) had four members of staff to 9 children in the baby room (12-24mo). Three nursery nurses (level 3 qualified (actually one was a qualified and experienced nursery teacher in Poland), on decent salaries) and a (level 2 qualified) centre assistant. Having that extra person, and retaining the same excellent staff for many years, made a huge difference.

It was the school/LA decision to resource the nursery properly, rather than merely meeting minimum legal requirements or trying to turn a profit as private nurseries need to. The fees were no higher than other private/maintained nurseries offering similar hours, and not that much higher than typical childminder prices locally.

I agree that early years needs hugely more funding, but it frustrates me when the sector is universally characterised as low wages, only in it for the love of it, blah blah. Some local authorities have been able to continue offering the sort of salaries, ratios, settings and quality which all children and families should be able to access.

@CantStartaFireWithoutaSpark summed up PERFECTLY

@Tillsforthrills

👌🏼 good chat.

At DT’s nursery the ratio of staff to children was 1:2. None of the staff were teenagers - most were much older than me. One of the reasons we chose it was due to a very low staff turnover. DT’s are now 23 and no longer living in the UK but both still send a Christmas card to their key worker - they had the same key worker from starting at six months until they left to start school. Two of the nursery staff were our babysitters.

I did a childminder fro 9 months to 2.5 years, then switched to a nursery. The childminder was fantastic with babies but clearly wasn't keen on toddlers!

Agree about the feeling loved part, my DC see it as their extended home and know they’re loved, they’ve formed sibling like relationships with their peers. I too feel very lucky!

Don't forget a high percentage of the 17 year olds in many nurseries are doing it becouse they have to be in education until they are 18 and playing with children all day sounds easy. They have nothing to loose and are often out of childcare in a couple of years....and yes often rules are broken and they are on their own with children due to staffing issues with senior staff caught up in other tasks. A childminder willbe suspended pending investigation loosing all income with knock ons to housing etc. And potentially their own children....so generally aremuch more invested in your child.
All thd activities and socialisation as well as updates are exactly the same. A childminder can also work with 4 adults on the same premises. They are inspected to the same standards. Safegaurding wise if any adult in the house has any police envolvement ofsted are immediately notified by the police ....this includes if they are called in about their own child's behaviour. A nursery relies on the staff reporting that an adult they live with has done something.

@jannier I’m guessing it’s an apprentice as she’s young and I can’t imagine she’d be able to pay her a lot.

EY certainly needs more government investment,

My son did private nursery as a baby then once he was 3 he went to a school nursery mornings and childminder afternoons. Childminder was the best thing I ever did. He wasn’t just looked after, he was loved. She’s like another grandparent to him and his relationship with the other kids was really special. No amount of resources could match the care, help and advice she gave. A good childminder is worth their weight in gold but it’s finding one that’s tricky.

It is really difficult employing an assistant is a minefield ....pension, NI, sick and maternity pay nobody is in childcare for the money unless they set up a big chain years ago. Most are struggling. Employing apprentices is popular especially in nurseries becouse the wage is so low and they get a grant but as soon as they qualify the get minimum wage....hence the high staff turnover and difficulty in finding a school leaver interested in the work not just doing it rather than 6th form. Reliability of students can be an issue. Trying to find motivated 17 year olds can be hit and miss. I've some students who I wouldnt leave a child with.

My 2 ( 3 & 18 months). Have both been at nursery from around 12/13 months. Not full time. 3-4 days a week. Hours have changed over the years to suit what we need. Both love the nursery. Both absolutely thriving. Care there is outstanding. They have a great bond with the ladies that work there. Honestly I believe the money has been well spent.

Not my kids. But I know of 3 parents who've sent their kids to childminders that have had awful experiences. Kids coming back with lunch not opened or touched. Nappy not changed all day. Drinks not given. Lots of lies been given to the parents. These parents all took steps to make sure what they believed to be happening was true. (Colour in a spot on nappy to prove child was coming home in the same nappy etc).

@jannier

My CM has taken on an assistant. I know for sure that after feeding these very hungry DC who are also obsessed with snacks and paying an assistant along with all other costs and overheads involved, I wonder how on earth she stays afloat!

The ratio for a childminder is one to 3 under school age normally at this level they generally earn minimum wage after costs. The ratio in nursery is higher and applies to the building often staff are out of rooms. The issue is overheads and very low funding

Apologies I meant how does your nursery afford 1 adult to 2 children in a room of just 8.

Your lack of experience with childminders shows. It sounds like you place more importance on the property and resources which is fine and all you’ve mentioned (minus the covered area of the garden) my CM has. The DC at my CM go out to lovely classes each week too.

Your nursery doesn’t reflect the usual child to adult ratios of nurseries at all, how can they afford 4 adults to two children?

So you are lucky but shouldn’t make general comparisons on your unique and limited experience let alone try to undermine Childminders.

I sent my ds to nursery but then became a childminder for a decade..

Personally for a baby i would send them to a cminder but trust your gut instinct. I think matching parenting style is important.

I have definitely been able to follow and work with childrens intrests more than a nursery. They developed close friendships.

Its over a year since i gave up but still in touch with many of my families.

I would always go nursery. It gives me more comfort personally knowing there are lots of staff about. My child loves other children and has a great time. We got loads of updates and they do lots of different activities. Have made a few friends with other parents at drop off and pick up. I really rate it.

Agree with Jannier, all these things can be found with a childminder too.

I do question something though, how can they possibly afford to stay open with one staff member to every 2 children?
I can't see how a business would stay afloat considering staff wages, building costs and all the other expenses that a business has to pay for unless they charge astronomical prices for each child.

Nothing you've listed can't be found in my home.
As an assessor I see it in all nurseries obviously varying newness but becouse they have it be aware not all use it. One very exclusive £20k nursery don't even let the children hold the books unless supervised. Parents are often swayed by looks what counts is the staff

I don't have experience with a child minder and I've been VERY lucky with the nursery my LO goes to. He started at 15 months and has absolutely thrived.

There are 8 children in the room with 4 staff.

The room he has just moved into after 4 months in his first one (which was also gorgeous) has a library corner with lots of books and bean bags, cushions etc. An area with a whole kitchen area that has so many things to explore and play with. An office corner filled with a brilliant pretend work space. A soft play corner and plenty of other brilliant areas. The garden is huge with an undercover area. We are constantly updated with new projects the children are working on along with plans for the week etc. they are taken out into the small town and to the play parks too.

The food is amazing and full of a healthy but yummy menu that changes every day and then month by month.

I personally cannot imagine a child minder ever being able to compete with the nursery my LO is in, so personally IF you can find something like this I would 100% go with a nursery.

As I said, my LO has thrived!

Agencies back on the cards and, bang on cue, a poster pops up to post rubbish about childminders.

as night follows day… 🙄