nanny issue. Starting to feel uncomfortable - is this normal?

It's the nanny mafia - I know a couple too, but only 1 who might consider live-in.

Sounds like your nanny hasn't bonded (or made the effort to bond) with your twins. I look after 2 year old twins and they shriek and scream with delight before I have even got myself in the front door (drives their momma nuts as usually I arrive mid-breakfast and they want me not their food now LOL)

She shouldn't really have the tv on every single night, and she shouldn't have her mobile phone beeping and buzzing all the time. Sounds like she is not paying 100% attention and isn't actively engaging the children. 2 year olds are hard work and especially twins, they need re-directing and engaging and attention especially in the witching hour (or hours LOL) and at the end of the day my twins enjoy snuggles and stories and are totally delish in their fleecy all in one pjs. I couldn't imagine NOT bonding with them and loving them.

Warning bells here too....

Wow, how do you know all these nannies? There are a few people on the hunt - see this thread here We are in Canterbury and will be looking before long (explains why on the other thread). Cat me if you think you know someone who might be interested, live in or out...

Sorry for the thread hijack - hijack over.

Oh, and goldenoldie - your updates re TV and text etc sound just like the nightmare nanny I had, those alram bells are really deafening....

TV should be for times when the children are tired - for example, I use DVD Time for when the 4 year old gets home from school (enables the children to chill out for a while, and for me to cook tea). During the day, if it's wet and miserable and craft session hasn't lasted long, then we will watch a DVD, listen to the radio, have CD's (music and stories). This past week has been bad weather wise, but the children still got out and about - went to the woods and built a 'den', dressed in waterproofs and wellyboots.

Your nanny needs to get out and about more to meet other people with children - could you force her to take them to a toddler group perhaps?

Should have added- there are 2 in Worcs

Currently: Hampshire, Worcestershire and Kent

Eleusis is looking and I will be at some point in the near future...where are these nannies living currently?

One would- the other two would want to live out

shinysnowflakes - do the nannies you know live in?

I don't think this is good. I have only had 2 nannies in 5 years though, so I don't have heaps of experience. The first one told me it was normal for children to be upset when a nanny arrived, for the reasons Nick outlined, and DS1 was upset when he saw the nanny frequently in the mornings for the year we employed her.

This hardly ever happens with our current nanny. Not never, but hardly ever. The boys were talking excitedly at Christmas about their new toys and how much they wanted to show them to nanny when she got back to work.

My first nanny was also loathe to go to drop in classes amd seemed unable to arrange playdates. We booked a term of Crechendo and told her she had to go, and there had to be a good reason otherwise it would be a waste of money. This worked both in terms of getting her out, and providing somewhere for her to meet other nannies and get playdates. We were a nannyshare so she was taking 2 boys the same age - as if they were twins. I wouldn't let having two be an argument against classes.

If you're with nannytax they have a good employment law telephone line service which should help you think through the legal options, if you feel it's time for a change.

I turned up unexpectedly one day and found the DDs slumped in front of daytime TV (they were 2 & 4 at the time) and nanny was upstairs in her room with the door shut. I waited with them for half an hour but still no sign of her, so finally went upstairs and called her. She told me, having thought I'd just arrived, that she was cleaning the bathroom, which was a blatant lie. Also forgot something one morning and drove back, to see her husband, who had been hiding in our hedge, go and bang on the front door! Children were indifferent to her, at best, and when she left (sacked, unsurprisingly), DD1 said "We really hated her, she was horrible to us. She told us that bad things would happen if we told on her."

Get rid. They should be used to her by now; something's clearly not right.

Definitely!

The more you say the more I dislike what I hear of this nanny. That sounds horrible which I don't mean it to be.

Maybe you could suggest/organise playdates or classes and that might help, but to be honest it sounds like its time for a change.

What is the tv tuned too?

I always think that if you are unhappy with your child care you need to get rid. These are your children FGS.

What area are you in goldenoldie- I know of a couple of very good nannies about to change jobs after long, happy stints with current families

You're right about that age group being more difficult to settle nick - I've found under 18 months it takes no time at all for them to get used to you, and 3-5 year olds understand that mummy goes to work and then comes back, so as long as you're kind and fun it's no problem. That age in the middle can be a nightmare! Still I would expect 3 months max for them to become close to a carer.

I find that between 2 and 3 years old, some children will associate the arrival of a carer, with the departure of a parent - and thus will create a fuss. However, it is very clear often (as others have commented) when the child is trying to manipulate the situation. To me it seems as though it's like the protest cry that children do when they are tired and don't want to go to bed. As soon as the parent is out of sight, the child stops. This is not something that just occurs with nannies - it occurs at pre-school, nursery and at childminders. Some children grow out of it in a short period of time, while others will take a lot longer.

Thus it can be hard to tell if the child and carer get along, if you are only seeing the child with the carer at the hand-over time. Therefore, dropping in unannounced is a good idea.

Golden - given that your twins (I am presuming you have twins, as you say '2 year olds' so more than one) adjusted to nursery within a few weeks, I would expect a similar pattern to have been followed with their nanny. Yet, you are saying it has gone on for 7 months... so it is a concern.
What are they like at the other end of the day? Do they seem happy when you arrive home?
Note: I do not give children a cuddle when I am about to leave... I tend to make a reasonably quiet exit - sometimes one of the children will follow me to the front door (an on occasion a child has protested strongly at my leaving, holding firmly onto my leg and screaming), while at other times I will be ignored. To avoid difficulties with departures, I do it in a low key way... the children know that dad/mum is home, and it's their opportunity to spend some quality family time together.

Sacking a nanny due to the children not liking the nanny - hmm, tricky one.
Probation period in contract with a short notice period, then following probation having a month's notice period - then you can dismiss a nanny for any reason you like, by just terminating the contract giving the appropriate notice. If you need to get an employee out faster, pay them in lieu of notice. Not sure there is much else you could do... it would not be instant dismissal, as I doubt it would fall under the Gross Misconduct section of contract.

yes i would be concerned

I LOVE the welcome i get from my charges every day i arrive

As a nanny, I think if after 7m, a child hadnt taken to me I'd be the one to bring it up. Mind you At this job I was asked after a week or so if I liked the boys as I never kissed them or hugged them when mum was around, I never kissed children as I was threatened with being reported to OFSTED when I kissed a baby on the head at a nursery so was v wary! I dint want to tread on mums toes, felt like usurping her place, so I bonded and huggled when she wasnt around!

As to nanny employment rights, I think that making sure the contract is a good one is important- sure Nannynick will have more to add! But Harriet live-in is different as she will be around the children on her time off- I tend to play with them, change a nappy if it smells! You will be able to see how she (or he, of course!) is with them. And you can spend more time with her and ask about her views etc.

harriet put a 3 month probation period in your contract - ie the first three months you can terminate on a weeks notice for any reason if you don't feel it is working out.

After that it should be standard 4 weeks notice to be fair, except in cases of serious breach which would include (specify) eg misuse of drugs, alcohol; loss of driving licence (if that matters to you); failure to keep children safe; violence or threatened violence; breach of confidentiality; theft or dishonesty; persistent failure to follow instructions; etc . If you want to get rid of them after the probation period for some other less serious reason it is only fair that you pay proper notice.

Okay, can NannyNick or other enlighten us on the nanny's employment rights in this case? What are the actual rules if things just don't feel right? What can one day? Am esp concerned/interested because we are considering live in for hte first time and if it doesn't go well, I need to know what my options are.