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Paid childcare

Discuss everything related to paid childcare here, including childminders, nannies, nurseries and au pairs.

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Original poster

Paying Childcare notice period after safe guarding

38 replies

Luce464 · 30/10/2021 14:54

Please help!

So basically my 3 year old daughter has been to one childminder since she was 8 months old. Now my 1 year old son also goes there along with my daughter, well up until 2 weeks ago. My daughter made a very disturbing allegation against her 11 year old son who's autistic and home schooled ( no parent wants to hear that from their 3 year old or any child for that matter).
So when I spoke to the childminder about it, she said she'll need to report it to ofsted and local authorities and obviously this will result me not having childcare anymore! This was done over phone call so have no proof that she said it.
Got a phone call a couple of days later from the local authority to ask me exactly what my daughter had told me and showed me, to then said they'll look into it and get back in contact and advised me to speak to my health visitor. The next day I spoke to my health visitor who was a confused why she hadn't been contacted about the situation so she went and spoke to them herself, she then phoned me the following day to tell me that they had closed the case. Obviously my partner and I weren't happy with this and can't understand why it hadn't been investigated further. My partner then phoned the local authority to ask questions why the case had been closed and they couldn't really say much for confidential reasons but also they didn't want to send someone round to speak to my daughter as this may upset her (totally understand that but as a parent all you want to do is protect your child but also find out why they hadn't done anything).
So we then reported it to the police as we was advised. Haven't heard anything back now for a week as I know these investigations could take time.
Anyway I received an email from that childminder today stating unpaid fees for 4 weeks notice. I thought hang on a moment she told me I now have no childcare in her setting and my child has been asulted and yet she still wants money out of me even though she knows this would of resulted me not being able to work due to no childcare, my stress levels are through the roof and I've got to find someone else to trust to look after my children. I spoke to citizens advice about the unpaid fees and they're saying I probably will have to pay her due to the contract agreement, surely this isn't right as my child was asulted by her son, 3 year olds can't make up a lie like that surely? it was so specific and she didn't understand it was something wrong! Please someone tell me where I stand as this is like living a nightmare literally

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

myheartskippedabeat · 31/10/2021 22:52

I'd report the incident to offstead and demand it gets properly investigated to start with then ask their advice about bills and in the meantime Write

Dear childminder
As I'm not happy this matter has been dealt with in a satisfactory manner I have escalated it to offstead who will be in touch in due course. I'm the meantime I will not be paying any further fees until the outcome of the investigation is concluded

gogohm · 31/10/2021 22:24

If the matter is a criminal situation (he's over 10) then you need to contact the police, the local authority and health visitor cannot decide if a case is worth pursuing, only the cps can

underneaththeash · 31/10/2021 22:08

I would contact OSTED direct abs also the local safeguarding team. If you google safeguarding + your area you should get the correct contact number.

ArthurTudor · 31/10/2021 07:05

I wouldn't pay on principle. However I am really confused by the events you've described. Why were the LA investigating an alleged incident of sexual assault before the police were even called? Why have the police taken a week to get back to you? Why have Ofsted not suspended her following an investigation? Surely she wasn't allowed to open the next day without this being investigated?

It sounds like you have limited information on how the LA handled things. What exactly did the LA do? I don't understand how there can have been an investigation if no one has spoken to you or your daughter. I would be calling the LA, and Ofsted on Monday morning to find out exactly went on. I would also be chasing up the police.

If of course a through investigation has taken place and the accusation hasn't been upheld then of course she's free to keep open. But it doesn't sound right from what you've said.

Also note that all complains to Ofsted are logged. I've seen them published on their website before when I've been searching for childcare providers.

Larryyourwaiter · 30/10/2021 22:49

I can’t believe the local authority have fobbed you off so much.
I also know a childminder who ‘homeschooled’ which basically means there is no schooling going on. I’m surprised the LA have told her that it isn’t acceptable but they seemed pleased that she was a childminder and wouldn’t need any further visits. Madness.

lisaandalan · 30/10/2021 22:42

I can't believe the local authority has closed the case the childminder must have played it down somehow, I'm so shocked.
Please contact Ofsted asap and ask them what is going on, before he does it to another child.

lisaandalan · 30/10/2021 22:33

Also I'd ring ofsted if you haven't already and see what is the outcome and where you stand legally. X

lisaandalan · 30/10/2021 22:31

@Luce464
Hi I am a childminder and we usually are entitled to a notice period, but in these circumstances i think she has a cheek asking for money.
Who is she insured by ?

It should say on your contract I would ring them and ask advise where you stand in this situation.
Hope your daughter is okay. X

prh47bridge · 30/10/2021 22:23

@Clementineapples

My son is severely autistic and wouldn’t dream of anything like that. I assumed you meant he had pushed her or hit her which I thought could be an accident or his autism but sexual assault on a child is incredibly worrying. Definitely report to police. I would also be inclined to put it on Facebook or her business page as I bet other parents wouldn’t have a clue about this behaviour.

Putting it on Facebook or anywhere else public would be an open invitation to the childminder to sue the OP for libel. The OP would have no defence as she cannot prove that her daughter's allegation is true.

Clementineapples · 30/10/2021 22:19

My son is severely autistic and wouldn’t dream of anything like that.
I assumed you meant he had pushed her or hit her which I thought could be an accident or his autism but sexual assault on a child is incredibly worrying.
Definitely report to police. I would also be inclined to put it on Facebook or her business page as I bet other parents wouldn’t have a clue about this behaviour.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 30/10/2021 21:59

I don't think it is likely to go to court @OnceuponaRainbow18. There is no evidence.

ThisMustBeMyDream · 30/10/2021 21:58

Children that age can, and do, lie. I know a 3 year old child that lied about a safeguarding incident. They did subsequently tell someone that they had told a lie. We also know why they told the lie. Children lie for all kinds of reasons. I'm not saying not to believe your child (of course you should). Just be aware that things may not be so clear cut.
Is it possible that your daughter was embarrassed at being told to remove her hands? So she made a reason up as to why she did it?
Anyway, as for the contract, I would just get actual legal advice. What an awful situation for all involved. I'm sorry you are having to deal with this.

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 30/10/2021 21:36

Also as this is likely to go to court I wouldn’t be putting the incident online

OnceuponaRainbow18 · 30/10/2021 21:35

If my child had been sexually abused I wouldn’t even be thinking about money.

Call ofsted again, call 999 if you need to.

Original poster

Luce464 · 30/10/2021 21:29

So basically my daughter and I was watching TV on Sunday a couple of weeks ago and she had her hands down her pants, I asked her what she was doing and to get them out. She then said X does it, me thinking, he's a pre teen so I thought she meant himself and said that to her, she then turned around casually and said no, to me. I was like wtf?!?! I asked her what do u mean, she said we was playing hide and seek near the swimming pool behind the curtain (she means hot tub as we also have one and she calls it a swimming pool and there's a curtained canopy around it). I made sure I wasn't asking her yes or no answer questions aswell. She said X tickled my bum, (this is also why the LA have closed the case due to my daughter saying that meaning lack of evidence). I then asked her can you show me what happened please as I know she gets a little confused with front and back. But she pulled her trousers forward away from her and put her hand down her front touching her vagina. She said it as if there was nothing wrong, so specific and not trying to get X into trouble as she had no reason to. Hope that might help a bit more?

OP posts:

80Dodgeballs · 30/10/2021 20:55

Yes, I've had 3 year olds say that I've kicked them when they've tripped over my foot. I've also had a two year old tell his Mum that I said he was naughty when I've never used that word. Kids do misinterpret but this doesn't sound like that with your child

prh47bridge · 30/10/2021 19:21

I'm not convinced the phone call helps. Not only is there no proof if she disputes your account, it sounds to me like she is suggesting that she will be closed down once she reported the alleged incident to Ofsted and the LA rather than telling you she is terminating the contract.

If this ended up in court, the question would be whether there has been a fundamental breach of contract by the childminder. The fact there has been an alleged safeguarding incident is not necessarily a fundamental breach contrary to what some posters seem to think. No-one can ever guarantee there will be no safeguarding incidents or allegations. What matters is how the childminder reacts when an allegation is made. She has clearly reported the allegation correctly. The authorities are clearly happy for her to continue operating. If she has taken appropriate steps to prevent any recurrence, the courts may decide there has been no fundamental breach and therefore you are liable. However, I only say that tentatively as I haven't seen the contract, nor do I know the details of the alleged incident.

Note that I have consistently referred to this as an allegation. From a safeguarding perspective, this is an allegation that must be taken seriously and investigated properly, but we don't make any assumptions about whether or not it is true until it has been fully investigated.

3 year olds can't make up a lie like that surely?

I don't know details of the alleged assault, so it is difficult to comment directly. However, at that age my youngest had already figured out he could get his older brother into trouble by bursting into tears and claiming his brother had hit him. In general, children start lying at around three years old, with some starting as young as two and a half. But, as I say, I don't know exactly what was alleged, nor do I know the circumstances in which the allegation was made.

ChateauMargaux · 30/10/2021 18:55

If she pushes you for payment, repeat... you terminated the contract. If you wish to pursue this, that is your right but in my defence, I will be stating that procedures in your house were inadequate to ensure the safety of my children while in your care and for this reason, the implied terms of our contract were breached by you and that I am not liable for any payment in lieu of notice.

ChateauMargaux · 30/10/2021 18:51

Write a shorter letter...

On X Date, my daughter made an allegation of abuse while in your care. This is currently with the police and I will not comment any further on this matter until it has been resolved.

I spoke to you on Y date and you advised me by phone that you would need to report this and would no longer be able to care for my children, effective immediately. I accepted this verbal communication from you as an immediate termination of our contract.

Sincerely,

Hohofortherobbers · 30/10/2021 17:23

There's an excellent poster @prh47bridge who may be able to advise on this

ProufForOnce · 30/10/2021 16:57

@amylou8

I'm a bit confused. Her son has been accused of assault on your daughter. This has been investigated by Ofsted, yet she is still a registered childminder looking after children? Presumably her son is still in the house while this is happening? Was the complainant upheld? If it was how is she still registered and working. If it wasn't upheld she's probably got a case for her notice money.

Ofsted are useless

We had a serious issue where I had a minor argument with the nursery manager (ds had allergies and she insisted I provide all his food plus pay full snack fees I said I’d provide or pay and they provide. She went mental at me)

She then called ss maliciously alleged that I was fabricating allergies and gad never shown her proof (luckily I was able to show the email I’d sent her with his hospital letter) she then called them again and said she witnessed me hit him ! I was fully investigated

I made formal complaints to the LA and Ofsted neither did a thing. They just didn’t care

Original poster

Luce464 · 30/10/2021 16:48

@amylou8

I'm confused too. Yes she is still registered and still operating and her son is still there when other children are there and interacting with them. Sorry I'm not understanding what you mean about the upheld bit?? If she has got a case for the notice money that's an absolute joke, I didn't ask for my dd to be asulted nor did I say I was going to remove them, I just spoke to her on the phone about it, in tears, she then said she'd need to report it and it will result me not having any childcare anymore

OP posts:

amylou8 · 30/10/2021 16:19

TheTeenageYears · 30/10/2021 16:09

I think you should sent the suggested email above.

Also, how is a registered childminder allowed to home school her son while she has charges in her care? Unless there is someone else there managing that I just don't see how that can be allowed? Childminders are not supposed to do anything for themselves during working hours so all cleaning etc is supposed to be done after children leave.

PiffleWiffleWoozle · 30/10/2021 16:07

Whether he knew it was wrong or not is beside the point. If he was not capable of telling whether this is right or wrong he shouldn’t be allowed unsupervised access to other children!

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